Raft
Annoying AF
I could deal with the shark but:

- EVERY single item has near 0 durability (The worst I've seen in a game)
- Objects on your raft simply "DISAPPEAR" when a part of the floor is destroyed (Why don't they float?)
- Animals are hard AF to kill (22 spears?), run faster than you, are magicians at evading, can magically sense when you have a weapon in hand AND once you are done with this hell (and used all your food, water and ressources,,, to make it happen) they drop nothing!
-Birds are CONSTANTLY going for your crops. By the time you go around that island your useless scarecrow is destroyed and half your crop pot have been emptied.
-Food recipes that GIMP your food, you may as well eat the ingredients.
-Loosing 2/3!? of inventory on respawn! OMG...

I love the concept, but at times it really feels like they abused the concept of "ressource sink". If you stop a second to enjoy the scenery it's game over. It's annoying AF and IMHO really kills the mood when you are starting out.

When starting out the whole experience is so stressful I almost gave up! I had several people try it, they all go in excited to try this new experience and come out of it stressed and annoyed by what just happened. All experienced gamers I must add.

So.. there you go. I feel this game could use a rethink of the balance of Chore vs Fun in the beginning of the adventure. You have almost zero direction, everything is so gimp you feel all you are doing is wasting your time. That made me feel like it was all chore and that fun barely had any place to live.

Edit: Re-Phrased a few things here and there to reflect more of what
I'm thinking and less of the emotion I was under at that moment. Love all the input you guys gave, If I ever make a game I'll be sure to pay attention to these groups. /Love
Ultima modifica da TCZ [QC]; 22 set 2022, ore 13:20
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Visualizzazione di 16-30 commenti su 33
While I agree some of his complaints are exagerated or resolvable with improved equipment, there are some elements of design this game has that are poor. Of particular note is the strength of the threats you face and when you face them. Screecher is one of the strongest enemies in the game (excepting Shark and bosses, it is tied with the Bears for the most HP, and it deals more damage then any enemy except Mama Bear). Yet this powerful creature can be encountered the first time you find a large island, potentially the second threat you encounter in the game after the shark. With Shark and Screecher as your first two encounters, it could easily leave a new player with a distorted opinion that enemies in this game will all be damage sponges that can kill you in 3-4 hits. Thats simply a poor decision in terms of game design to put such a powerful and durable enemy so early,


do note, shark gets a pass because it's nature is to be a persistant and consistant threat game wide. It's encoutners like screecher and bear (and to an extent warthog due to it's durability, though it's damage is not nearly as bad) so early in the game that is problematic.
That's... a good take. Back when I started I think large islands didn't spawn until you made a receiver. Nowadays though they seem to spawn anytime, like five minutes in sometimes. Prior players know what they're getting into but OTOH some poor souls in the other thread recently had issues with a raft being stuck on one within the first hour, and they didn't even intend to approach it, not that I'd blame them if they did, as one reasonably can assume a big island is better than a small one which was danger-free.

Perhaps they should've made a countdown by days for large islands to appear if they didn't want it story-triggered. Sounds easy to do...
Yeah, I will admit that the difficulty when it comes to creatures is stupid, especially when it comes to large islands.

As for the bears/warthogs, they are easy to deal with with just dodging their attacks. Warthogs are the easiest because you know when they charge, the ONLY thing that bothers me about the bears is the damn hitbox. Having to stand MILES back just to avoid damage because their claws must extend like wolverine when they attack you xD
Messaggio originale di BahamaLlama:
Yeah, I will admit that the difficulty when it comes to creatures is stupid, especially when it comes to large islands.

As for the bears/warthogs, they are easy to deal with with just dodging their attacks. Warthogs are the easiest because you know when they charge, the ONLY thing that bothers me about the bears is the damn hitbox. Having to stand MILES back just to avoid damage because their claws must extend like wolverine when they attack you xD

The bears and warthogs are easier to fight, certainly, and by the time you meet bears you'd have practiced some combat at least against the lurkers on the ship. It's more the durrability they have, since even then the best you have is a metal spear taking 9 or 10 shots to take one down. First impressions can be everything, and if you're fighting enemies taking 9 or 10 shots with a metal spear (18-20 shots with wooden spear) as your early enemies, then start thinking about what you'd expect later enemies to be like. In Raft, that expectation would be wrong.... as you get stronger weapons the enemies themselves actually have equal or less HP, so later enemies end up going down a lot faster because they're actually weaker then the early game enemies.
Messaggio originale di BahamaLlama:
Yeah, I will admit that the difficulty when it comes to creatures is stupid, especially when it comes to large islands.

As for the bears/warthogs, they are easy to deal with with just dodging their attacks. Warthogs are the easiest because you know when they charge, the ONLY thing that bothers me about the bears is the damn hitbox. Having to stand MILES back just to avoid damage because their claws must extend like wolverine when they attack you xD
Been a week or two since my last bear fight, but I recall sprinting backwards is enough to exit their attack range, or, maybe I'm benefiting from my poor frame rate somehow? or since I'm not using melee? In any case, they definitely rotate if you circle-dodge so that is a no-go.
Messaggio originale di phadin:
The bears and warthogs are easier to fight, certainly, and by the time you meet bears you'd have practiced some combat at least against the lurkers on the ship. It's more the durrability they have, since even then the best you have is a metal spear taking 9 or 10 shots to take one down. First impressions can be everything, and if you're fighting enemies taking 9 or 10 shots with a metal spear (18-20 shots with wooden spear) as your early enemies, then start thinking about what you'd expect later enemies to be like. In Raft, that expectation would be wrong.... as you get stronger weapons the enemies themselves actually have equal or less HP, so later enemies end up going down a lot faster because they're actually weaker then the early game enemies.
Another confusing part is bows being more damaging than equivalent spears, even usually equal to higher tier spears. I don't know about IRL but I don't recall any game being like that, so that's gonna throw a new player's planning or perception off a bit. I don't even think the resource use per hit is much, but to be sure I'm logging down my observations for some math later.
Messaggio originale di TCZ QC:
I could deal with the shark but design decisions like theses?:

- EVERY single item has near 0 durability (The worst I've seen in a game)
- Objects on your raft simply "DISAPPEAR" when a part of the floor is destroyed (Why dont they float? WHY?)
- Animals are hard AF to kill (22 spear hits REALLY?), run faster than you, are magicians at evading you, have an UNDERSIZED collider (or our spear doesn't attack far enough), can magicly sense when you have a weapon in hand (very weird behavior for an animal ai) AND once you are done with this hell (and ate all your food and water cause it takes forever) THEY DROP NOTHING! (Did I mention there's a giant bird that trows rock at you on top of this?)
-Birds are CONSTANTLY going for your crops. By the time you go around that big island your scarecrow is dead and half your crop pot has been emptied.
-Grills that only cook 1 potato at a time?
-Food recipies that GIMP your food, you may as well eat the ingredients.
-Loosing 2/3!? of inventory on respawn.

I love the concept, but it's OBVIOUS the only thing the devs found out to "prolong" gameplay is to make everything such a HUGE ressource sink that if you stop a second to enjoy the scenery it's game over. It's annoying AF and IMHO shows a lack of effort.

One of the most stressfull thing I've experienced. I had several people try it, they all go in excited to try this new experience and come out of it stressed and annoyed by what just happened. All experienced gamers I must add. (The kind to play Doom 1&2 at ultra violence if your gaming culture goes that far.)

So.. there you go. I feel that this game needs work done on the balance of Chore vs Fun cause now its all chore and fun barely has any place to live. Unless you put the game in gimp mode.
All these things you mentioned is like the first 2 hours of gameplay, The tutorial essentially
You reinforce the outer edges of ur raft And shark wont attack, Research better grills and weapons they are a lot better
Passive animals arent sposed to be killed, And the agressive ones are Utterly easy to beat, the combat is made with a 10y old in mind, Attack dodge rinse repeat, If ur struggling with that Yeah ur no gamer by a longshot. Birds are annoying yes, But if you build ur crops inside they cant get to them, You can also build the nests and they will lay down in them instead Making an easy kill for meat and feathers, Resources, just make nets it will cover all the basic resources as you sail along, So you only need to trouble ur self with with diving for ores, Shark is easy to kill with metal spear, 3 stabs per charge and you can kill him twice and some extra damage per spear, Hes dead for 3 minutes so u can mine peacefully. The game is literally the most chill experience
My best suggestion, go to raftmodding.com and find you some mods. There are mods that stop all the animals from attacking, there are mods to increase drops, there are mods for just about everything. They are there, so make use of them, I do, but mainly cause I like the story line and the building parts and not so much the survival parts. Also almost everything is upgradeable, check all building materials to see if they are researchable, when you make something check it as well, and if it is, if you have enough to make a second do so so you can research it because more than likely you wont be able to make the upgraded one yet. Grab everything you can, I usually try to make a clean clear of each island, no matter how many times I have to go back to my raft. As for getting stuck on islands, make you a paddle, paddle yourself off of it, or turn your sail away from the island. This game really isnt that hard.
All the animals are easy to kill. Once you learn it you also realize how they move exactly the same all the time
If this game is so stressful for you, I recommend playing peaceful mode. I prefer that too. Its calm, easy, you can focus on building, gathering. You can download an item spawner mod too if something is hard or annoying to get.
I'm also a new player and I came here looking for someone with similar experiences.

The thing that bummed me out most was getting to the large island and having depleted my palm leaves building several collection nets. I was one rope short of making an axe. I found no way to get more even though I could see hundreds of palm leaves and other stuff that could be used in the same manner.

Then I encountered a boar with one half broken wooden spear. Figuring out how to stab it without getting gored wasn't that complicated, but when the spear broke I had no other choice but to run. The hitbox of the boar felt really small or the attack range of the spear felt shorter than a pocket knife. That made the game feel "cheap" in my opinion.

Getting pummeled by rocks from nowhere was a surprise, but all I had to do was leave that area and the bird wouldn't follow.

OP was coming on a bit hard, but I can feel his/her frustration. The game design feels weird with loads of crap streaming past your raft at a speed that feels like 10 knots. The early game to a new player will seem very stressful trying to catch everything and every crafting recipe requires alot of items. All the while your meters are dropping. Filling the hunger and thirst meters requires alot of clicks. It's like the game pace is cranked up to 11 just so you wouldn't get bored in the first hour, but instead makes new players stressed out. In my opinion, the game would be more welcoming with the debris being more valuable, slower paced and more spread out. Right now it feels more like a cookie clicker.

I should add that I picked up the game some time ago during early access and held off playing until it was released. By some weird coincidence, the VR mod released to the public just yesterday, so I booted it up in VR for my first trial run. The hook was a bit tricky to aim with motion controls, thus making the rain of items even more frustrating to catch. I failed a couple of times because I had no clue how to get fresh water. I then decided to try to learn the game in pancake mode and maybe jump start a raft before diving back into the VR mode.

Having just recently played Subnautica BZ, which is a bit similar in several ways, I can't help but to compare the two. I believe in survival games like these, new players pick up everything the can, filling the inventory with items they don't have a clue how or when they will be used. In Subnautica, there is also alot to pick up in the early game, but you don't need that much to get started. After a while, you learn to leave stuff be until you need it. In Raft, you can't pick stuff up fast enough. The inventory space is somewhat similar in both games, despite having very different usage rates. In Subnautica, you get an early boost with some food that fills 75% of the bar. Thus giving you time to figure out how to get food before starving to death. In Raft, you can't even grill half the fish you catch due to being too big. It doesn't feel intuitive.

Most (if not all) replies are from people who are Raft veterans. Of course you find the game easy. No game you have sunk a couple of hundred hours into can be considered difficult to grasp by then. I think the OP has several valid points about the game not being welcoming to new players.
Messaggio originale di MuppetLord:

Then I encountered a boar with one half broken wooden spear. Figuring out how to stab it without getting gored wasn't that complicated, but when the spear broke I had no other choice but to run. The hitbox of the boar felt really small or the attack range of the spear felt shorter than a pocket knife. That made the game feel "cheap" in my opinion.

Just so you are aware, and there may be others that are not, you can also kill stuff with small rocks. Check out Iota's video showing it, he actually went through and tried killing all animals with a small rock. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHsYULubfvo&list=PLE7TZ-a42W5tBtOLk9x8VI9H0jeU-WEII&index=1
good waste of time, using rocls to kill animals....
Messaggio originale di Zombits:
good waste of time, using rocls to kill animals....

Hey if you dont have anything else, it works at least. I've done it before (after having seen Iota do it) because I ran out of arrows in the middle of an attack, but happened to have a few rocks on me.
Messaggio originale di MuppetLord:
Most (if not all) replies are from people who are Raft veterans. Of course you find the game easy. No game you have sunk a couple of hundred hours into can be considered difficult to grasp by then. I think the OP has several valid points about the game not being welcoming to new players.
The thing that bummed me out most was getting to the large island and having depleted my palm leaves building several collection nets. I was one rope short of making an axe. I found no way to get more even though I could see hundreds of palm leaves and other stuff that could be used in the same manner.

Then I encountered a boar with one half broken wooden spear. Figuring out how to stab it without getting gored wasn't that complicated, but when the spear broke I had no other choice but to run. The hitbox of the boar felt really small or the attack range of the spear felt shorter than a pocket knife. That made the game feel "cheap" in my opinion.

[...]

OP was coming on a bit hard, but I can feel his/her frustration. The game design feels weird with loads of crap streaming past your raft at a speed that feels like 10 knots. The early game to a new player will seem very stressful trying to catch everything and every crafting recipe requires alot of items. All the while your meters are dropping. Filling the hunger and thirst meters requires alot of clicks. It's like the game pace is cranked up to 11 just so you wouldn't get bored in the first hour, but instead makes new players stressed out. In my opinion, the game would be more welcoming with the debris being more valuable, slower paced and more spread out. Right now it feels more like a cookie clicker.

[...]

Having just recently played Subnautica BZ, which is a bit similar in several ways, I can't help but to compare the two. I believe in survival games like these, new players pick up everything the can, filling the inventory with items they don't have a clue how or when they will be used. In Subnautica, there is also alot to pick up in the early game, but you don't need that much to get started. After a while, you learn to leave stuff be until you need it. In Raft, you can't pick stuff up fast enough. The inventory space is somewhat similar in both games, despite having very different usage rates. In Subnautica, you get an early boost with some food that fills 75% of the bar. Thus giving you time to figure out how to get food before starving to death. In Raft, you can't even grill half the fish you catch due to being too big. It doesn't feel intuitive.
One still has to be able to illustrate a problem to veteran players, seeing how the people working on the game will naturally be veterans at it very early on.

Here's the thing too: People differ wildly in their assessment ability. Me? I'm the guy who role-plays a newbie while going through a tutorial of a game I've played for ages just to see if it does its job right, out of pure curiosity. I'm even vetting as far as expecting RTS games to teach edge-of-screen movement and box-selection as I've recently met people not familiar with such actions.

I'm also the guy who stays on low tier stuff for, by the perception of others, too damn long. In Minecraft for example I hit Diamond after weeks of IRL time while friends do Netherite in a day or two. I bother with setting up stuff with some degrees of meaningfulness, such as food, landmarks, maps, as well as meaningless stuff, while friends instead care about other things including speeding through the tiers, sometimes to their own detriment (e.g. death/near-death due to lack of food or heals).

Comparatively in Raft, I'm on day 400 to 500 and still didn't head to story location #7, while some people have finished it in day 200 (some of those ignoring some content, e.g. grass & honey), and I've finished location #6 probably between days 150 and 350, as I'm still messing around with the content I have, not in any rush for more content, and bothering with experimenting on some obscure stuff or re-experimenting already-known stuff.

Even in terms of early game, I noted before that my first save (IIRC) was on "Hard" difficulty, on Single-player without prior knowledge of how the game goes, and I'll tell you it wasn't an easy first hour and my progress wasn't fast, but I didn't die, and while improvement was slow for a long-ass time, there was still improvement. This actually gets me perplexed when I read others on easier difficulties & are proclaimed as "experienced gamers" call this "stressful", hardly can consider their experience of Raft without sound detail.

In terms of my own early experience of Raft, I've been very slow to go beyond the basics that become obvious early: Food, water, raft repairs, followed by storage and navigation. Soon enough I got to realize how frequent islands are and how not-so-critical they are for the priorities mentioned, especially considering the edible, anchor, and durability costs involved with them. That guided me into realizing maybe I didn't establish on-raft situation enough, so I'll just focus on that, having varying stocks of consumables be it food/water, fuel, or tools, then I'll be able to up-tier (visit islands) in a safe and relaxed manner, after all the whole of said priorities is pure addressable by on-sea resources-

-which by the way yes there is more of it than the player can capture, and obviously so, probably as an indication of safety (there is always an abundance of resources, so focus on what you need or how to optimize instead of what you can get) rather than a source of worry & pressure, as the game is hinting that the situation is a "surplus" rather than a "trade-off". For example I personally classified crates, barrels, and triple leaves as priority, and anything else as if-required for long periods of time, and naturally as the game goes anyone will change their collection-plan per the situation.

I've even personally delayed getting the research table for quite some time, and even after getting it I've been quite slow in utilizing it, because I wanted to understand and master the earlier tiers better, and as far as priorities go, I had no reason to rush higher tiers, because the earlier tiers carried my priorities.

This in a sense actually makes milestones actually valuable & rewarding, as what objective one plans for & work towards doesn't get done in 5 seconds. Sure, people vary in what they like and how patient they are with the stuff they dislike or are neutral towards, but nothing will fit everyone, and that's why on one end there's well-described difficulty levels (which hopefully are very relevant as these problems sound like early pre-major-investment problems), and on another end they're baiting the player with content be it islands or blueprints, giving the player a goal to strive for. Some people I know didn't get into Raft thinking it is way less than what it is, can't necessarily put the blame on an exact cause, but if islands weren't showing their first times quite as early as they do now, when one is probably not yet prepared for them, I feel said friends might be more justified to have that incorrect & boring perception of Raft. Maybe there's a middle solution, but who really knows. What exists now isn't "bad" though, from my view at least.
[...] The hitbox of the boar felt really small or the attack range of the spear felt shorter than a pocket knife [...]
I never really felt that for range, but perhaps one or both of us is influenced by other games or something, or my insanely low FPS. Hitbox is fine, rather what I cry about is the "looting" hitbox of some other creatures, drives me maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad...
In Raft, you can't even grill half the fish you catch due to being too big. It doesn't feel intuitive.
That is *very* bad RNG... even if you're mis-matching your tiers. May I suggest checking the wiki for the odds and, if they don't make sense, perhaps pull a test on your end.
Ultima modifica da KtX2SkD; 19 set 2022, ore 9:38
Messaggio originale di KtX2SkD:
*Wall of text describing someone with a very unique mindset*

I don't see how your essay portraying yourself as someone with a one-of-a-kind playstyle has anything to do with the average player? :P

That is *very* bad RNG... even if you're mis-matching your tiers. May I suggest checking the wiki for the odds and, if they don't make sense, perhaps pull a test on your end.

It was not literally 50% of the fish that were big. I just thought it was unintuitive to not being able to grill several of the fish I caught.
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Data di pubblicazione: 14 set 2022, ore 11:50
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