Is this yet another "The $$$ stopped coming in so the game is dead" games?

[jrb531]

Let's cut to the chase. Game after game comes out in Alpha, some make a ton of $$$, some not so much, but the common thread with almost every one is that once the $$$ stops flowing, the development stalls to stops. No major updates in almost two years? No excuse. None. Zippo. They have to keep saying they are working on it and perhaps they are but people are not stupid. Tons of progress and major development as the $$$ pours in after release and when the $$$ slow or stops.... nada or a few patches and graphics add-ons. I wish these devs would be honest with us. I hope the Dev is not one who just deletes and bans anyone who questions them. I love Raft and I put it aside over a year ago to wait for some updates. I just got back and checked and it's in the same shape as well over a year ago. Eventually people are going to stop buying these Alphas after they get burned enough.

[Polarcrest]

Honestly, the full game could be coded in the time they are taking to do an update. They are abusively slow to get out updates and let's be honest, it's not like their updates are game changing. They are small chapters that add a couple new things and hours of gameplay.

Two years is more than enough time to create something big and amazing but it'll be another small addition then we'll go back to waiting. My guess is that this next one will be the last.

Most likely they are using the time and effort to make a different project since this one already made it's money.

[Kiwi Bug]

Originally posted by Kojak:

Originally posted by Trouble:

Dude, LOL, The game is 20 dollars, sit down and zip it.

I can take that same 20$ and give it to a developer that isn't lazy, inept, and takes 2 years to update what is essentially a voxel game.

Every kid does not deserve a trophy, and every poo developer does not deserve our money even if it is only 20$.

The last large update was less than a year ago (June 21st, 2021) and the devs have been regularly sharing things that are in process for the next chapter update. It's also a very small team, not a lazy, inept developer. If you want to compare it to other voxel games, minecraft seems to take around 6 to 8 months to release major updates and has somewhere around 500-700 employees. Redbeet interactive has 8 people.

The people who are impatient and keep shouting for things to be released are part the reason why things get released with so much bugs lately. You'd be just as mad about it(if not more) if they dropped the update tomorrow and half of it was broken because it wasn't finished. Just have some patience and if you can't, get a friend group together and make your own fully fleshed out game to prove that it's so quick.

[Menzagitat]

Originally posted by Polarcrest:

Honestly, the full game could be coded in the time they are taking to do an update. They are abusively slow to get out updates and let's be honest, it's not like their updates are game changing. They are small chapters that add a couple new things and hours of gameplay.

Two years is more than enough time to create something big and amazing but it'll be another small addition then we'll go back to waiting. My guess is that this next one will be the last.

Most likely they are using the time and effort to make a different project since this one already made it's money.

So what? :)
The core of the game is there.
Even if it takes 10 year until the next update, you already got a great game. Is not like other low quality indie games.

[poy]

the game is very fun though even in early access stage so money well spent (i consider the price affordable, cheap even). i have no complain, i'll be patient.

[jrb531]

The thing is that no logical thinking individual can believe that even one person working 8 hours a day (they are working full time on this game correct?) over the course of many months can produce so little. It insults our intelligence so skip the usual "it's only $20" or "the game is good enough already" stuff. All I, and many others, ask is for the Dev to be open and honest with us. Enough with adding extra cosmetic things every few months and counting that as substantial development. If you ran out of money, tell us. If you have moved on to another project (hey we all have to eat) then tell us. Stop trying to pretend that Raft is being worked on the same at it was a year or two ago. One last thing... Raft is a Steam game and as such your main line of communication should be here and not Discord.

[jrb531]

Originally posted by Star Baby:

Originally posted by Kojak:

The last large update was less than a year ago (June 21st, 2021) and the devs have been regularly sharing things that are in process for the next chapter update. It's also a very small team, not a lazy, inept developer.

The last update was cosmetic. When was the last REAL update?

October 2020

So the last "Chapter" was over 16 months ago!

So even one person working 16 months, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week comes to 2560 hours of work! So tell me how even one person is still working full time on this.

[Menzagitat]

Originally posted by jrb531:

The thing is that no logical thinking individual can believe that even one person working 8 hours a day (they are working full time on this game correct?) over the course of many months can produce so little. It insults our intelligence so skip the usual "it's only $20" or "the game is good enough already" stuff. All I, and many others, ask is for the Dev to be open and honest with us. Enough with adding extra cosmetic things every few months and counting that as substantial development. If you ran out of money, tell us. If you have moved on to another project (hey we all have to eat) then tell us. Stop trying to pretend that Raft is being worked on the same at it was a year or two ago. One last thing... Raft is a Steam game and as such your main line of communication should be here and not Discord.

They use Discord?
I thought they post only tweets once in a while. I do not check those either.
But why do you want an update?
You have nothing else to play anymore?
Or is some social justice thing for you?

[Kiwi Bug]

Originally posted by jrb531:

The last update was cosmetic. When was the last REAL update?

October 2020

So the last "Chapter" was over 16 months ago!

So even one person working 16 months, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week comes to 2560 hours of work! So tell me how even one person is still working full time on this.

The last real update was June 21st, 2021. Whether you think it's a 'real'update or not doesn't matter. This was a major update that added a lot of content to the game that wasn't there previously and improved customization.

This was also being worked on along side the chapter 3 update, so those hours you're referring to are a combination of both updates, as well as any bug fixes and QOL changes between then.

This is a team of 8 people. 2 programmers, 5 artists and 1 community manager. Even larger game developers take time to release things with hundreds of people on their team. As I already mentioned, Minecraft has lately received updates roughly every 6 to 8 months and they have 500-700 employees. Is it really that hard to accept that a team of 8 is going to take longer?

As the game stands, it's already worth the $20 from the existing content. The developers have given no indication that they've stopped working on it, and in fact have continued to show they are working on it. It's one thing to give constructive criticism but posts and comments like this are nothing more than being impatient because you don't understand how the development process works. Or people falling for an april fools video and completely misunderstanding what is being included in the next update.

The only thing you do have right is that the updates should be shared more visibly on steam, but that's it.

[Druinthor]

Originally posted by Star Baby:

The only thing you do have right is that the updates should be shared more visibly on steam, but that's it.

Every time these "is this game dead" posts come around this is always the sticking point. If they said "September it is coming" everyone (most) would wait patiently for that date but this "is it next week" thing is dragging. Even if they said it is at least "x months away" then we would know where we stand.

This is one of the most enjoyed games in our household and we all look forward to chapter 3. It will be glorious.

[Kiwi Bug]

Originally posted by Druinthor:

Originally posted by Star Baby:

The only thing you do have right is that the updates should be shared more visibly on steam, but that's it.

Every time these "is this game dead" posts come around this is always the sticking point. If they said "September it is coming" everyone (most) would wait patiently for that date but this "is it next week" thing is dragging. Even if they said it is at least "x months away" then we would know where we stand.

This is one of the most enjoyed games in our household and we all look forward to chapter 3. It will be glorious.

I don't know, another game I liked announced a release that is a week away and people are already asking for it now. Impatient people gonna be impatient!

It can be a double edged sword, because if they reach that point and something has pushed it back, then that's a whole other can of worms with people complaining about a missed launch (Even if it wasn't a definite date). But it is a point I could agree on. It would be nice to get a general timeline even if it's not super specific and would probably resolve some of these complaints.

[Rio]

Even a broad timeline wouldn't solve anything.
There will always be complaints about something.
Seems it's just not possible to be happy without grousing about something entirely pointless in the grand scheme of life.
I guess if that's how someone wants to spend their time and be known, then.....let 'em.

[Menzagitat]

Originally posted by Kojak:

Basically an easy lesson for those of us with a work ethic: Never support these developers again.

So you are a SJW.
One who likes to destroy good games.

[Menzagitat]

Originally posted by Kojak:

Originally posted by Menzagitat:

So you are a SJW.
One who likes to destroy good games.

I enjoy destroying developers who take years to fulfill promises and roadmap goals. If more of them were destroyed, the steam store would not be filled with incomplete games that are playable, even enjoyable, but not left idle for years. There are way better, more active developers that deserve money. Raise the bar, my friend, and everyone benefits. If they can't handle more than one update a year, they are obviously not cut out for game design.

There is little difference between Early Access and Realeased state.

Look at 'The Long Dark'.
Was released in 2017 and they yet have to release an Episode 5.

Developers should not tell when the next update comes.
That is against Steam's advice:

Originally posted by Steam:

2. Do not make specific promises about future events. For example, there is no way you can know exactly when the game will be finished, that the game will be finished, or that planned future additions will definitely happen. Do not ask your customers to bet on the future of your game. Customers should be buying your game based on its current state, not on promises of a future that may or may not be realized.

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/earlyaccess

They can even release the game and continue adding chapters, one every 1-2 years and may or may not add an end story chapter.

[Jatul]

Talking about The Long Dark in here is funny

Both games seem quite similar in how they are limited, repetitive and with really slow development

A better example would be SCS software or Hello Games, both developers have excelled at communicating their progress and actually releasing progress in no time at all even after all the time it's been since the release of their games

Hinterland is just trying to make more money out of an incomplete product...

As for this game, yes, it may be early access, but it seems like it'll never be finished

Besides, it's performance is awful

[Kiwi Bug]

Originally posted by Kojak:

Originally posted by Menzagitat:

So you are a SJW.
One who likes to destroy good games.

I enjoy destroying developers who take years to fulfill promises and roadmap goals. If more of them were destroyed, the steam store would not be filled with incomplete games that are playable, even enjoyable, but not left idle for years. There are way better, more active developers that deserve money. Raise the bar, my friend, and everyone benefits. If they can't handle more than one update a year, they are obviously not cut out for game design.

This isn't a 'work ethic' issue. This isn't a lazy developer just taking the money and running. Seriously, people have gotten way too entitled expecting things to be instant. Not everything is and not every developer has as much money to pour into having large development teams to get things out fast. This is a group of 8 people. Larger games with hundreds of people on their team take months for major updates as well, does it really come as a surprise that a significantly smaller team is going to take significantly longer as a result?

Also, to address the 'more than one update a year' comment. Even large developers may only manage one or two major updates a year. I've already used this comparison, but it works: Minecraft has major content updates being released every 6 to 8 months with a team of 500-700 employees(varies based on sources). Redbeet interactive has 8. They're going to take longer. Making a game is not an easy process.

Just because something is taking a while doesn't mean it's because people are lazy. You have no idea what is going on in the background, how much it actually takes to program certain features and updates as well as test them as much as possible to try to fix major bugs. You don't know what roadblocks they may be running into which are delaying development.

It's been less than a year since the last update, and while development on this chapter has been longer than the others, it hasn't been that much longer and also sounds like there is more coming out with this than previous ones. The devs are also sharing regular updates, some are small and just showing off new items, but they've been showing they're working on it and not just sitting back drinking champagne while twirling their mustaches and bragging about how much money they've gotten.