Engines count vs Foundations count for 100+ F-s Raft

[Fury Fairy]

Hi there survivors!

New to Raft, enjoying it taking my time, love planning all my builds in advance (Excel / creative) since unlike e.g. Subnautica you don't get all the stuff back when dismantling blocks. So far so good the question is: https://raft.gamepedia.com/Engine there's this part (Speed chapter):

There are basically three Engine speed settings in Raft, disregarding drifting. Slow sailing (1.5), when the Engine(s) can push the raft but at minimum speed before stopping completely. Medium speed (2), achieved by using a single Engine on a raft under 100 foundations. High speed (2.5), when a raft has multiple Engines which are successfully sailing the raft. Since the effect of 'Slow Zone' Engines are negated when running multiple Engines at the same time, high speed is always achieved once the raft is successfully sailing with multiple engines.

I plan to have 10x15 raft, so to achieve MAX = x2.5 speed, do I need 2 or 3 engines? Maybe since English is NOT my native I can't clearly get the meaning of what's written on wiki?

Anyways, I'd love to hear "proofs from experience" answers rather than speculations - 2 or 3 engines will significantly affect my endgame raft layout, so I'd like to know for sure. Alas in creative engines do NOTHING - otherwise I'd found out on my own.

Thanks in advance, and happy sailing! =)

[Kerulon]

Welcome to the game!

For up to 100 foundations you only need a single engine.
Then another engine for every 100 foundations above.
Collection Nets DO NOT count towards this number.

So for your 10x15=150 foundation raft, you need two engines.
(there's a number painted on the side of the engine->1/100 foundations ^^)

I got a 25x29 raft with multiple rings of catchment nets as well as anchor and engine wells.
I "would" only need 5 engines, but for reasons of symmetry i'm firing up six... :)

Happy cruising!

HTH, regards, Kerulon

[Fury Fairy]

Hi Kerulon, and thanks for the answer!.. =)

Originally posted by Kerulon:

Welcome to the game!
So for your 10x15=150 foundation raft, you need two engines.
(there's a number painted on the side of the engine->1/100 foundations ^^)

No offence, but this does NOT answer my main question:

Originally posted by Fury Fairy:

I plan to have 10x15 raft, so to achieve MAX = x2.5 speed, do I need 2 or 3 engines?

While it's crystal clear that for every whole or partial hundred one MUST have 1 engine - and that's Medium speed (2), wiki is NOT 100% clear and straightforward about how to get High speed (2.5) for Rafts with 100+ foundations.

I'm in the early game in survival and have not even visited any storyline POIs, so I cant test it on my own yet. IF, however, you or anyone else who has resources no prob can do that simple test with one EXTRA engine on top of what's MUST and see whether speed is different - I'd be extremely grateful. Thanks, and enjoy your day!

[Kerulon]

Sorry, if that didn't come through clearly.
According to the wiki, if you have more than one engine on your raft and those engines are sufficient to move it, then it will *always* run at max speed (see citation below).

Again, for reasons of symmetry i even built eight engines on my raft, although i only need five and regularly only fire up six.

The raft doesn't move faster (subjectively, seen from the field of debris; i didn't measure radar distances and time traveled), when i fire up all eight engines, than when i only fire up six.
If that count's as *reliable info*, there you go! ^^

Also, see: https://raft.gamepedia.com/Engine
from there: "[...]High speed (2.5), when a raft has multiple Engines which are successfully sailing the raft. Since the effect of 'Slow Zone' Engines are negated when running multiple Engines at the same time, high speed is always achieved once the raft is successfully sailing with multiple engines."

Regards, Kerulon

[Jodyxe]

I would like to add:

1. I have played Raft for quite some time and have never noticed additional increase in speed from multiple engines. That might have been a myth similar to misconception of increase in speed from using multiple sails. I am pretty sure that neither multiple sails, nor engines (when sufficient), can increase speed over the capped value whether the capped value is 2.0 or 2.5. Theoretically sail + engine might be even faster than engine only. However if it is the case, the difference in speed is so insignificant that I cannot see if it even exists.

2. Since the collection net does not contribute to foundation number, you can replace all non-vital foundation tiles with nets in order to decrease overall number of foundations way below 100. This way I succeeded to build immensely huge rafts that were powered with just a single engine. This however requires some extraordinary planning, but quite worth the time and effort. If interested in an example of such concept I could invite you to my game to take a look yourself.

[Xas]

Two Engines are sufficient of any normal built.

Recommend to have
Three Engines,
Two to thrust and backwards,
One for Sideways, to allow sail zigzag, without even the need for a steering wheel.

Listen to the engine throttle sound and smooth spinning wheel,
could easily tell if its going at top speed.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2258353529

[Kerulon]

Originally posted by Jodyxe:

[...]
2. Since the collection net does not contribute to foundation number, you can replace all non-vital foundation tiles with nets in order to decrease overall number of foundations way below 100. This way I succeeded to build immensely huge rafts that were powered with just a single engine. This however requires some extraordinary planning, but quite worth the time and effort. If interested in an example of such concept I could invite you to my game to take a look yourself.

And, as you can add foundations directly to collection nets since update-12 now, you don't have to "build around, then axe off" foundations anymore!
I however prefer my *floating fortress*... ^^

The OTs question though was, *how to achieve max speed* and the wikis : when on two or more engines (that are sufficient to move your raft), you always travel at max speed positively answers this.

Regards, Kerulon
EDIT: typo

[Kerulon]

Originally posted by Xas:

Two Engines are sufficient of any normal built.[...]

We seem to have different opinions on what constitutes a normal raft... ^^

But maybe it's just my way of 'roleplay'/bringing as much realism into the game as possible.
As we are "forward scouts" and try to find a suitable place to live for our families as well as resources to build a new society, my raft is a heavy resource collector and tranport vehicle...

While the 'mariners' trimaran concept in waterworld is maybe sleek and fast, it hasn't the buoyancy to lift all the materials i gather (in RL, inGame it's irrelevant). Hence i prefer the 'heavy transport' over the sleek designs with minimal possible foundations... ^^
My raft is a "floating fortress pyramid".

Just my way of playing though, regards, Kerulon
EDIT: clarification

[Fury Fairy]

Oh WOW, did not expect so much attention and such constructive comments, Raft community is definitely nice and sweet! I'll try to respond to all significant parts here:

Originally posted by Kerulon:

The OTs question though was, *how to achieve max speed* and the wikis : when on two or more engines (that are sufficient to move your raft), you always travel at max speed positively answers this.

If this is TRUE - that's exactly what I'd like to hear, in particular THIS part made me confused:

Originally posted by Fury Fairy:

Since the effect of 'Slow Zone' Engines are negated when running multiple Engines at the same time, high speed is always achieved once the raft is successfully sailing with multiple engines.

"successfully sailing with multiple engines" - being in QA business for 13+ years i prefer precise wording to the letter, in that case smth like: "If you have 100+ foundations raft AND have 1 engine per every hundred - either whole or part - it will move at MAX 2.5 speed". My bet no 2nd meaning here, right?

However, Kerulon, you say:

Originally posted by Kerulon:

I "would" only need 5 engines, but for reasons of symmetry i'm firing up six... :)

AND

Originally posted by Kerulon:

The raft doesn't move faster (subjectively, seen from the field of debris; i didn't measure radar distances and time traveled), when i fire up all eight engines, than when i only fire up six.

I have no doubt that 6 and 8, or anything which is 6 or MORE will not make a difference, but could you please for the sake of peace on earth check is there any difference in speed when you fire FIVE and SIX? Thanks in advance! =)

Originally posted by Jodyxe:

Since the collection net does not contribute to foundation number, you can replace all non-vital foundation tiles with nets in order to decrease overall number of foundations way below 100. This way I succeeded to build immensely huge rafts that were powered with just a single engine. This however requires some extraordinary planning, but quite worth the time and effort. If interested in an example of such concept I could invite you to my game to take a look yourself.

I will gladly accept the invitation as soon as I gain enough exp and make enough mistakes on my own :) Games like Raft and Subnautica have only ONE thing to regret about - they CANT be erased from memory to experience the 1st time again!.. However, this is my 1st ever attempt in Creative after less than 20 hrs in game - critics are more than welcome:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2258422541

Happy sailing guys! =)

[Kerulon]

Originally posted by Fury Fairy:

Originally posted by Kerulon:

I "would" only need 5 engines, but for reasons of symmetry i'm firing up six... :)

AND

Originally posted by Kerulon:

The raft doesn't move faster (subjectively, seen from the field of debris; i didn't measure radar distances and time traveled), when i fire up all eight engines, than when i only fire up six.

I have no doubt that 6 and 8, or anything which is 6 or MORE will not make a difference, but could you please for the sake of peace on earth :butterfly: check is there any difference in speed when you fire FIVE and SIX? Thanks in advance! =)

Will check with 5 as well as 6 engines and will even make a radar distance and time check...

*reporting back, when it's done!*... ^^

Regards, Kerulon

[Kerulon]

Alrighty, reporting back...

I did some testing (as 'scientific' as a measurement in a matrix like environment can be ^^)
The people doing the work on modding raft can possibly read those data points right from the game files...

I didn't (yet) took into account my latest expansions hence my raft sputtered with 5 engines and needs 6 for normal operations now.
So i did the test with 6 and 7 engines.

I took four measurements.
One time cruising away from the target with 6 and 7 engines, then reversing the engines and driving towards it again.

Engine speed check (Radar Target: Tangaroa Dome):

Make sure to always have fuel (planks/bio diesel) in your engines tanks.

- position raft directly upwind/upstream meaning,
without any driving power (sail/engine) the raft would drift directly onto the radar target
- drop any sails (the only propulsion will be the engines (and the currents stream))
- drop anchor and activate six (the needed amount) engines
- take distance to target (D1) from radar reading
- raise anchor, start the timer (T1) and cruise about half the distance to target with 6 engines.
- drop anchor, write down time (T1) and distance (D2, from radar reading) travelled
- activate engine number seven
- raise anchor, start the timer (count time (T2) from zero again) and travel to target
- right before bumping into the target,
- drop anchor, and again write down time (T2) and distance (D3, from radar reading) travelled

Data points:

Speed (7 engines)= (D1 - D2) / T1 = 536r / 220s =2,44
Speed (6 engines)= (D2 - D3) / T2 = 282r / 114s =2,47
Speed (6) = 612r / 251s =2,43
Speed (7) = 706r / 290s =2,43

Within my margin of error of measurement, this is highly consistent and confirms the wikis statement regarding the speed under multiple engines.

It also seems to indicate, that the speed the raft has while drifting without power (sail/engine) isn't taken into account, when cruising under engines, as on one way, the raft is cruising against, then with the stream (that speed would be high enough to be significantly above the margin of error).
EDIT: this could be tested by cruising from, then approaching a target that lies perpendicular to the waters current, then check whether the target will be "head on" all the time (no lateral speed).

HTH, regards, Kerulon
EDIT(s): formatting, typo

[Dr_Maik]

Originally posted by Kerulon:

Alrighty, reporting back...

I did some testing (as 'scientific' as a measurement in a matrix like environment can be ^^)
The people doing the work on modding raft can possibly read those data points right from the game files...

I didn't (yet) took into account my latest expansions hence my raft sputtered with 5 engines and needs 6 for normal operations now.
So i did the test with 6 and 7 engines.

I took four measurements.
One time cruising away from the target with 6 and 7 engines, then reversing the engines and driving towards it again.

Engine speed check (Radar Target: Tangaroa Dome):

Make sure to always have fuel (planks/bio diesel) in your engines tanks.

- position raft directly upwind/upstream meaning,
without any driving power (sail/engine) the raft would drift directly onto the radar target
- drop any sails (the only propulsion will be the engines (and the currents stream))
- drop anchor and activate six (the needed amount) engines
- take distance to target (D1) from radar reading
- raise anchor, start the timer (T1) and cruise about half the distance to target with 6 engines.
- drop anchor, write down time (T1) and distance (D2, from radar reading) travelled
- activate engine number seven
- raise anchor, start the timer (count time (T2) from zero again) and travel to target
- right before bumping into the target,
- drop anchor, and again write down time (T2) and distance (D3, from radar reading) travelled

Data points:

Speed (7 engines)= (D1 - D2) / T1 = 536r / 220s =2,44
Speed (6 engines)= (D2 - D3) / T2 = 282r / 114s =2,47
Speed (6) = 612r / 251s =2,43
Speed (7) = 706r / 290s =2,43

Within my margin of error of measurement, this is highly consistent and confirms the wikis statement regarding the speed under multiple engines.

It also seems to indicate, that the speed the raft has while drifting without power (sail/engine) isn't taken into account, when cruising under engines, as on one way, the raft is cruising against, then with the stream (that speed would be high enough to be significantly above the margin of error).
EDIT: this could be tested by cruising from, then approaching a target that lies perpendicular to the waters current, then check whether the target will be "head on" all the time (no lateral speed).

HTH, regards, Kerulon
EDIT(s): formatting, typo

Great testing!
Just out of curiosity, what do you feed the engines with, 6 engines require quite a lot of food, howw have you minimised the work labour?

[Fury Fairy]

Originally posted by Kerulon:

Data points:

Speed (7 engines)= (D1 - D2) / T1 = 536r / 220s =2,44
Speed (6 engines)= (D2 - D3) / T2 = 282r / 114s =2,47
Speed (6) = 612r / 251s =2,43
Speed (7) = 706r / 290s =2,43

WOW, such a systematic and thorough approach for testing!.. As a side question - how do you make your living man, sounds very analitical to me!.. =) Anyways, thanks a TON - your findings mean I need only 2 Engines, therefore more free space for SMTH else, like extra fuel / water tanks. WOOHOO!..

[Kerulon]

Originally posted by Dr_Maik:

Great testing!
Just out of curiosity, what do you feed the engines with, 6 engines require quite a lot of food, howw have you minimised the work labour?

I currently got 8 beehives strategically placed around 4 small growplots (see wiki for the setting).
It's only 8 because i need a line of sight onto the grow plots to shoot the friggin seal gulls, who declared an outright war on my flowers!

Also i'm just shy of one striped LLama to have a pair of every rare farm animal currently in game.
The four cluckers provide me with enough eggs to have four bio fuel refiners running almost constantly.
So my stock in bio fuel is pretty large...

That being said, i don't like the sound of the engines, thus i'm almost only cruising under sails (unless looking for more bees or being in a hurry ^^).
Also, i'm throwing out leafs, rope and plastic practically completely as the collection nets sweep the whole width of the field of debris.
The planks i get are more than sufficient to be able to drive anywhere (or perform this little test)...

So, being cheap, although every engine has it's dedicated tank, they're currently disconnected and i'm running solely on planks.

Originally posted by Fury Fairy:

WOW, such a systematic and thorough approach for testing!.. As a side question - how do you make your living man, sounds very analitical to me!.. =) Anyways, thanks a TON - your findings mean I need only 2 Engines, therefore more free space for SMTH else, like extra fuel / water tanks. WOOHOO!..

You're welcome... i'm a natural scientist. ^^

Regards, Kerulon

[Fury Fairy]

Originally posted by Kerulon:

I currently got 8 beehives strategically placed around 4 small growplots (see wiki for the setting).
It's only 8 because i need a line of sight onto the grow plots to shoot the friggin seal gulls, who declared an outright war on my flowers!

That's offtopic here, but I guess I managed to make an enclosed Green House with setup that lost precisely ZERO crops to seagulls (well except 2 beets ONCE... because of my own stupidity when i went sleep and forgot to close the door) in TWO IRL days of extensive gameplay. If interested - please feel free to add me no prob. Take care! =)