Spoilers: The ending is bad.

[Grimm Carrolls]

The wolf route was the best. They had the balls to make their protagonist a full-on psycho murderer, but it wasn't some cringe power fantasy - it was a claustrophobic nightmare full of tiny wins being countered by huge losses. If I'm ever thinking about Raging Loop, i'm probably thinking of this route.
But, unfortunately, it goes downhill into unrecoverable territory after that. Furthermore - the decline is sharp and happens almost immediately.

Why does this happen? Well:
Short answer: To turn the story's theme on its head and give a logical outcome.
Long answer: No ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ idea.

A huge part of the narrative impact is the battle of wits plot, visual/audio art and the worldbuilding, with the latter being very significant. We've just sat through 20+ hours of plot development, powered by a heavily polished, supernatural backstory that is pieced together across three seperate acts. Then, it ends in a climactic finale where the entire world is destroyed by the results of our actions.
Now we have, what - three hours of it being rehashed and flipped across long info-dump sections? Only to end in an hour of a clearly rushed, cut "grand finale" that involved every character debasing themselves in a seriously offputting, comedic fashion.

There's so much to criticise. Act 3 ended with the summoning of a god that immediately destroys the planet, with the reasons of why it happened buried deep into the lore of the story. This is proven by the fact that you have to reinsert yourself into the previous acts, into unfinished branches that each contain infodump secrets that result in a bad end. Meaning, basically, they didn't happen. This is lazy, but very minor damage in comparison to everything else.

"Subversion of expectation" is a fantastic plot device, but only when its used to expand the plot. Ned Stark being sentenced to the wall would have been a big slap in the face to the north, but his beheading, which came from of a unexpected, yet believable source, led to an entire war that rocked the following seasons of Game of Thrones. The expected outcome was replaced by one that drove a lot of drama.
The subversion of expectation in Raging Loop's case was shifting from a story of dying, regional gods breaking free and wreaking havoc, to one of a bunch of dudes playing Cabin in the Woods. In what way is this better? All it does is shrink the scope of the narrative from a global, spiritual story, to one of a bunch of dumb villagers who have been fooled by a cast of Cabin in the Woods knockoffs. Whose motive was... control. Of a backwater village that provides them precisely nothing.

The reveal is also just awful. The climax of all that learning is Chiemi deciding to pause the plot by being annoying for no reason whatsoever, then giving up after she receives a insult that's slightly humiliating. Then, the MC prances around joking and bantering, all while being watched by his opps, who do nothing. They don't have powers anymore. Why? Because MC read a scroll with a inc*l. Okay - the VN isn't even trying to have any conflict or payoff anymore. The plot is being told to me, and I no longer care.

Super personal rant: The strange moral interplay bothered me to no end. The MC is simultaneously a paragon of virtue for handling everything perfectly and having no deaths on his hand, and also a psychopathic rascal for... lying about his name and intentions to a bunch of strangers he wasn't planning of being around? Why did he let the geezer charge him with a knife? I'm supposed to be satisfied that the single most revolting character in the game fell over and died out of nowhere so MC could have a no-kill run? I literally just sat through his transformation into a slasher villain. I am not some disgusting vanilla sc*nner. Please go f*ck yourself with that cop-out in particular. The constant need for Japanese writers to appeal to higher moral virtues sucks the soul out of their narratives, and has been the number one reason it's impossible for me to stomach more than single VN a month.

I thought I'd forgive it when the reveal finally hit. Sometimes VNs die and revive themselves at the climax, and this VN was so good that I sat through all that nonsense. Rikako is then revealed to be the mastermind, and the tone shifts as the climax begins. Time for a redemption, right? Wrong.

First problem - Haruaki is standing there and talking to a girl who is capable of ending the entire world at the tap of her berserk button. Does he knock her out and end the plot? No, and that's good - that wouldn't be satisfying. But neither is ignoring the only real advantage you have because you wanna be nice. Not just to anyone, but someone who has corrupted and nearly destroyed not only your life, but your soul, and is about to g*nocide the world. This makes it impossible to give a f*ck about the climax right from the jump.

It's minorly pathced up by Rikako's need for vengeance and her role as being a vessel for a hateful god makes sense, but the constant joking and glossing over of her trauma, the root cause of everything you've been through, just dig the hole even further. Even as the cabin gets crowded, everyone watches as Rikako finally decides to summon her god and fails because of a talk-no-jutsu sesh that ended with the MC retracting responsibility of her feefees because... he lied about his name? Okay. You got it. Thanks for taking all the emotions I invested into the novel and throwing them into a pulp comic blender of an ending.

Rikako goes from g*nocidal maniac to derpy comic relief villainm, the obsessed inc*l gets to take guardianship of a girl who everyone has sworn off, including MC who previously had a whole relationship with her, and the game ends with us riding off with Chiemi despite her being the worst character in the game.

I can barely feel the love I had for the VN. And for what? To fulfill a theme introduced at the very last minute. Alright. You got it.

[HAWAIIANpikachu]

I kinda agree with this, personally I do feel like they dived into this a bit hastily, but I don't think they butchered the entire concept. I found it alright and it make enough sense, although the backstory info dump for key 8 was a pain (so much clicking) but it did give other people a lot more character and backstory, and I kind of expected the ending to be that ending as the game went on, as a lot of stuff made a lot more sense in the context of the ending, such as why would god really care about you going into the fog as they could just make it impossible to leave through the fog, god allowing such things as Haruaki being allowed in the first place they also didn't fully just slaughter everything before hand Such as Haru having "god", and the sheep also Chimei was pretty much his only option as Haru is like 16(somewhere around that) and Haruaki said he was 24, so some people are very likely gonna be uncomfortable by that. Rikako, who was acting "kawaii" at the end because at that point literally everything she had as a goal in life was ripped away from her (which I thought was obvious but her and Kiyonosuke's side-story further explains into that), was loved by Kiyonosuke and he clearly loved her so I don't think Haruaki would go for her because Kiyonosuke is a really nice guy under that careful speech and logic, along with doing that was part that Haruaki would be basically giving in to part of the deal that Rikako tried to do but Haruaki bamboozled her into only giving a half deal that worked in his favor. Chimei and Haruaki also are pretty alike and had a lot of offscreen time together and would have memories of each other from different timelines.

Also I'm sure Haruaki would have killed the Old Man but him tripping and falling just felt like it was some humor after that serious scene behind it, at least in my opinion.

Maybe this did damage the ending and game, but I still loved the hell out of the game. I personally don't judge the ending as much as the full adventure of the story because I feel like that will hurt some pretty good games if you just said that they were bad because the ending wasn't good.

[Grimm Carrolls]

Originally posted by HAWAIIANpikachu:

I kinda agree with this, personally I do feel like they dived into this a bit hastily, but I don't think they butchered the entire concept. I found it alright and it make enough sense, although the backstory info dump for key 8 was a pain (so much clicking) but it did give other people a lot more character and backstory, and I kind of expected the ending to be that ending as the game went on, as a lot of stuff made a lot more sense in the context of the ending, such as why would god really care about you going into the fog as they could just make it impossible to leave through the fog, god allowing such things as Haruaki being allowed in the first place they also didn't fully just slaughter everything before hand Such as Haru having "god", and the sheep also Chimei was pretty much his only option as Haru is like 16(somewhere around that) and Haruaki said he was 24, so some people are very likely gonna be uncomfortable by that. Rikako, who was acting "kawaii" at the end because at that point literally everything she had as a goal in life was ripped away from her (which I thought was obvious but her and Kiyonosuke's side-story further explains into that), was loved by Kiyonosuke and he clearly loved her so I don't think Haruaki would go for her because Kiyonosuke is a really nice guy under that careful speech and logic, along with doing that was part that Haruaki would be basically giving in to part of the deal that Rikako tried to do but Haruaki bamboozled her into only giving a half deal that worked in his favor. Chimei and Haruaki also are pretty alike and had a lot of offscreen time together and would have memories of each other from different timelines.

Also I'm sure Haruaki would have killed the Old Man but him tripping and falling just felt like it was some humor after that serious scene behind it, at least in my opinion.

Maybe this did damage the ending and game, but I still loved the hell out of the game. I personally don't judge the ending as much as the full adventure of the story because I feel like that will hurt some pretty good games if you just said that they were bad because the ending wasn't good.

The concept was that werewolves exist and the feast was real. It ended up being smoke and mirrors. I kinda do feel like that's a betrayal. Replay the VN, will you be able to soak in that atmosphere knowing it's all ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥? I wouldn't. There was just no need to do that.

I guess I don't mind that he ended up with Chiemi, but I feel like Haruaki's relationships with the other two heroines kinda stopped rather than ended.
Haru had a crazy journey with Haruaki and ended up dying for him in an emotional scene. They acted like it didn't happen.
Rikako loved the hell out of Haruaki and wanted to bang him for the rest of eternity. Her plot fails and she goes dumb dumb dere dere and is carried off by Kiyonosuke of all people.

These decisions are anticlimactic. The latter decision also kinda felt disgusting. Like, she does all this ♥♥♥♥ and her actions are swept under the rug? Lol, so stupid.

I doubt he'd have killed the old wolf guy. Japanese writers are beholden to their beloved morality.

I guess you have a point there. I can't see it this way, though.

[HAWAIIANpikachu]

Originally posted by Zakkuri:

Originally posted by HAWAIIANpikachu:

I kinda agree with this, personally I do feel like they dived into this a bit hastily, but I don't think they butchered the entire concept. I found it alright and it make enough sense, although the backstory info dump for key 8 was a pain (so much clicking) but it did give other people a lot more character and backstory, and I kind of expected the ending to be that ending as the game went on, as a lot of stuff made a lot more sense in the context of the ending, such as why would god really care about you going into the fog as they could just make it impossible to leave through the fog, god allowing such things as Haruaki being allowed in the first place they also didn't fully just slaughter everything before hand Such as Haru having "god", and the sheep also Chimei was pretty much his only option as Haru is like 16(somewhere around that) and Haruaki said he was 24, so some people are very likely gonna be uncomfortable by that. Rikako, who was acting "kawaii" at the end because at that point literally everything she had as a goal in life was ripped away from her (which I thought was obvious but her and Kiyonosuke's side-story further explains into that), was loved by Kiyonosuke and he clearly loved her so I don't think Haruaki would go for her because Kiyonosuke is a really nice guy under that careful speech and logic, along with doing that was part that Haruaki would be basically giving in to part of the deal that Rikako tried to do but Haruaki bamboozled her into only giving a half deal that worked in his favor. Chimei and Haruaki also are pretty alike and had a lot of offscreen time together and would have memories of each other from different timelines.

Also I'm sure Haruaki would have killed the Old Man but him tripping and falling just felt like it was some humor after that serious scene behind it, at least in my opinion.

Maybe this did damage the ending and game, but I still loved the hell out of the game. I personally don't judge the ending as much as the full adventure of the story because I feel like that will hurt some pretty good games if you just said that they were bad because the ending wasn't good.

The concept was that werewolves exist and the feast was real. It ended up being smoke and mirrors. I kinda do feel like that's a betrayal. Replay the VN, will you be able to soak in that atmosphere knowing it's all ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥? I wouldn't. There was just no need to do that.

I guess I don't mind that he ended up with Chiemi, but I feel like Haruaki's relationships with the other two heroines kinda stopped rather than ended.
Haru had a crazy journey with Haruaki and ended up dying for him in an emotional scene. They acted like it didn't happen.
Rikako loved the hell out of Haruaki and wanted to bang him for the rest of eternity. Her plot fails and she goes dumb dumb dere dere and is carried off by Kiyonosuke of all people.

These decisions are anticlimactic. The latter decision also kinda felt disgusting. Like, she does all this ♥♥♥♥ and her actions are swept under the rug? Lol, so stupid.

I doubt he'd have killed the old wolf guy. Japanese writers are beholden to their beloved morality.

I guess you have a point there. I can't see it this way, though.

I mean sure, there's no reason really besides "why not", but there is plenty of replay value with revelations mode and the side stories, replaying a VN after knowing everything normally is just for memory lane, but with the ending and revelation mode you have a reason to go through all acts again. Hell, i did it, revelations mode is really good for more replay value.

I mean, yeah for Haru it was kinda a gut punch, but once again it would be really difficult to wrap that up nicely in the ending, and as stated the two ages are very different

She loved Haruaki not really out of true love, but because of what and how he was. He was cunning, adaptive and knew a lot with a silver tongue. He was a perfect person for her goal, I personally don't really think it was actual love.

Kiyonosuke of all people? Wut? Sure he's not the nicest of the bunch (actually I don't think any of them are really in the game except Yoshitsugu and Meiko, and maybe Takumi when not stressed by the game) He clearly does care for her just by general actions (he objects to any votes towards her, tries to defend her, etc) and by showing up in the end encounter with her.

Decisions? Like all the choices in each game? I mean sure, I guess it kinda sucks that each choice is either a death or continues the plot, but it would also suck if you were doing a route and OOPS, because you messed up at X point you're locked to certain death and have to go all the way back at that point (+a TON of more writing they would have to do) And it's not like you have no real clue. I didn't get many deaths besides the forced deaths (I got 2 non-forced deaths only, one in Route 4(the mystery death) and the other in Route 5(Didn't want to kill Takumi but nope, he's the snake)

Also due to the nature of the game, you can't really charge her for her crimes. They happened in other timelines so literally there was no way to prove that she tried to force a game to kill a lot of people and summon a god and it would likely be laughed out of any court or at best get her into a mental asylum. Kiyonosuke and Rikako's side story does say what happens to her after the situation

Japanese writers? Probably not. Him as a character? Likely would kill him in a heartbeat

[Grimm Carrolls]

*snip*

Again, the atmosphere is destroyed. Sure, I guess I could enjoy the character interactions and the battle of wits, but the horror element is gone because it's all smoke and mirrors. And maybe the side stories and revelations are good, IDK, I didn't read them. Not really interested in seeing even more backstories that don't mean anything, or any plot of writers that just decide to go 'why not' and dismantle a cool concept for no reason.

It's Japan. They don't seem to care about age difference. And difficulty is irrelevant. The writers should write out Haru's sacrifice if they can't properly conclude that subplot.

So, because you feel like it wasn't 'true love', they should just drop the love plot abruptly like they did? I don't see how that makes any sense.

Kiyonosuke is a creepy little stalker that has been chasing Rikako for ages, despite the fact that she clearly goes out of her way to avoid him. And, if we wanna get deep with it, Rikako is really more or less being held prisoner. What happens if she refuses his aid and shelter within his mansion? Where does she go? Where CAN she go? He's beyond creepy and pathetic. But I'm sure the side story manages to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ its way around this and come up with some asinine reason Rikako avoided him and that, hey, she really did like him this whole time or some crap.

No, when I say decisions, I'm talking about the writing decisions. The writers decided to make it as if Haru never died for Haruaki and have Rikako go dumb dumb and have all of her evil actions swept under the rug.

Then don't charge her. Kill her. Not only is that Justice (and likely what would be ruled if the court system had all the evidence anyway), it's smart. She's a massive liability. Besides, this would clear up the earlier problem of the love plot just being randomly abandoned.

??? Who writes his character? Japanese writers. They don't want their protagonists to be psycho murderers. Haruaki technically was at one point, but he was full pacifist in this route. He doesn't kill, as was proven by the fact that they just had the old man die by accident and let Rikako walk free.

Maybe I'm just not as forgiving as you. I've seen bad writing, and I've seen ineptitude, but this doesn't even feel like that. Again, it just feels like betrayal. I don't see how the writers of something as amazing as the Wolf Route can turn around and give us this much of a trashfire of a true route. It's like they decided "Lets turn everything on its head to show how smart we are". Or maybe, and I really think this is what it was, it was so that they could have a justification for all the bad ♥♥♥♥ Haruaki and the other characters did. It's much easier to forgive a character for committing evil acts if their feet are held to the fire by gods.
Japanese morality ruining their stories yet again. Jesus, the main characters of Yakuza don't even kill people FFS.

[HAWAIIANpikachu]

Originally posted by Zakkuri:

*snip*

Sure, the atmosphere is destroyed, but it's going to be destroyed anyways on your second play through or any other gameplay. That's going to be really gone even if it stayed besides maybe minor dread as the ending gets closer. Revelations and Sidestories are all really good. Sure, maybe some of the backstory doesn't matter as much as it's not god, but the characters and relationships is really good.

Maybe as not as much in America, but there's still relationship laws there. From memory of a bit of history of Japanese marriage laws that a male and female can legally get married at 18 and 16 (respectively) but if they're under 20 years old they have to get consent of the relationship by an adult. Of course, Japan is Japan, not fully sure about everything yet.

Haru's sacrifice is needed however in the ending, there wouldn't have been as much impact in the ending with that sacrifice. The ending of the wolf arc wouldn't have been the same gut punches without it. Then we would be at the same problem anyways with the blank state of the ending of the relationship.

Not like that at all, imo it just never felt like true love in the first place, just that he was a useful helper. There was at least an ending for Rikako which was Haruaki destroying her only goal in life and basically breaking her, which I think is what they intended as the "end" for Rikako and Haruaki's relationship, unlike Haru which never really had an ending.

Kiyonosuke is a stalker? Eh... Never got that idea from him. He didn't really do anything stalkery. And he never tried to take advantage of her at any point of the story nor really did anything that stood out like that.

First one I agree with, second one is explained in context (Goal gone, literally nothing to live for and all her work is ruined, so she's only got that "cute innocent" persona for her as something remaining for her.)

Kill the person when the only evidence you really have is from other timelines that almost nobody else knows exist. Nobody in the village would believe Haruaki except for Haru and Chimei and MAYBE Chikamochi (if his logic extends beyond time) and Kiyonosuke (which wouldn't want her dead anyways). She DOES get exiled from the village in the side stories.

Him as a character. He's already shown to be willing to kill and do messed up things (End of Wit Route he suggests cutting off the wolves arms and legs to make sure they don't kill anyone else) He basically breaks Rikako. He's already a lot less "morally right" than other main characters, even under Japanese Writers wanting him to be a good guy.

Sure, it's not the best ending or logic and other games have tried stuff similar to this, but I don't think it killed the game, nor really harmed it. They could have spaced it out better for sure (key 8 for example, I actually had to use auto and I almost never use auto). Maybe I'm just being too nice, but I think it did really well, with the same of the other 75% of the game

[Grimm Carrolls]

Originally posted by HAWAIIANpikachu:

Originally posted by Zakkuri:

*snip*

Sure, the atmosphere is destroyed, but it's going to be destroyed anyways on your second play through or any other gameplay. That's going to be really gone even if it stayed besides maybe minor dread as the ending gets closer. Revelations and Sidestories are all really good. Sure, maybe some of the backstory doesn't matter as much as it's not god, but the characters and relationships is really good.

Maybe as not as much in America, but there's still relationship laws there. From memory of a bit of history of Japanese marriage laws that a male and female can legally get married at 18 and 16 (respectively) but if they're under 20 years old they have to get consent of the relationship by an adult. Of course, Japan is Japan, not fully sure about everything yet.

Haru's sacrifice is needed however in the ending, there wouldn't have been as much impact in the ending with that sacrifice. The ending of the wolf arc wouldn't have been the same gut punches without it. Then we would be at the same problem anyways with the blank state of the ending of the relationship.

Not like that at all, imo it just never felt like true love in the first place, just that he was a useful helper. There was at least an ending for Rikako which was Haruaki destroying her only goal in life and basically breaking her, which I think is what they intended as the "end" for Rikako and Haruaki's relationship, unlike Haru which never really had an ending.

Kiyonosuke is a stalker? Eh... Never got that idea from him. He didn't really do anything stalkery. And he never tried to take advantage of her at any point of the story nor really did anything that stood out like that.

First one I agree with, second one is explained in context (Goal gone, literally nothing to live for and all her work is ruined, so she's only got that "cute innocent" persona for her as something remaining for her.)

Kill the person when the only evidence you really have is from other timelines that almost nobody else knows exist. Nobody in the village would believe Haruaki except for Haru and Chimei and MAYBE Chikamochi (if his logic extends beyond time) and Kiyonosuke (which wouldn't want her dead anyways). She DOES get exiled from the village in the side stories.

Him as a character. He's already shown to be willing to kill and do messed up things (End of Wit Route he suggests cutting off the wolves arms and legs to make sure they don't kill anyone else) He basically breaks Rikako. He's already a lot less "morally right" than other main characters, even under Japanese Writers wanting him to be a good guy.

Sure, it's not the best ending or logic and other games have tried stuff similar to this, but I don't think it killed the game, nor really harmed it. They could have spaced it out better for sure (key 8 for example, I actually had to use auto and I almost never use auto). Maybe I'm just being too nice, but I think it did really well, with the same of the other 75% of the game

Alright. I'm more or less over it now, anyway. I'm just gonna pretend the final route didn't happen. Childish, sure, but I kinda wanna play the wolf route again.

I do disagree with you on Rikako's love, though. She died for Haruaki once, after all, when she could've just killed Chiemi and won the game. Everyone else was dead, she could've resurrected her god right then.

I'll be moving on to Baldr Sky soon. Take care.

[HAWAIIANpikachu]

Alright, take care. I don't mind if you wanna delete that from your thoughts. Wasn't the best ending but I don't think there ever will be a best ending. (Except in games like Dead Rising where there's multiple endings and the "best ending" exists)

[kilicool64]

Just wanted to add that I don't really get what you were expecting from Haruaki's development. It's made very clear at the end of Darkness' first day that Haruaki is merely accepting his role as a villain here because it's the only way he can survive and hopefully obtain more information on how to escape the loop. He wasn't ever going to continue being the bad guy outside of this chapter.

[HAWAIIANpikachu]

It's still really dark. And the best route.

[Grimm Carrolls]

Originally posted by kilicool64:

Just wanted to add that I don't really get what you were expecting from Haruaki's development. It's made very clear at the end of Darkness' first day that Haruaki is merely accepting his role as a villain here because it's the only way he can survive and hopefully obtain more information on how to escape the loop. He wasn't ever going to continue being the bad guy outside of this chapter.

I dunno what you're going on about. I don't recall ever saying anything that suggested I wanted him to be a bad guy. I fully understand that Haruaki fulfilled his role as a wolf as a means to survive and end the loop.

[Maelis]

this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ has an umineko profile picture then goes and say how the atmosphere is ruined when you've learnt that you were tricked the whole time

[Maelis]

but yeah, I do agree that the ending wasn't good, my hate for it coming from the whole uematsu thing and the big monster that was added so randomly

[HAWAIIANpikachu]

Yeah that was sudden but at least it made sense after a bit of context (but ya can’t say it wasn’t a WHAT moment)

[Grimm Carrolls]

Originally posted by Maelis:

this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ has an umineko profile picture then goes and say how the atmosphere is ruined when you've learnt that you were tricked the whole time

My specific arguments against the smoke and mirrors setting of Raging Loop don't apply to Umineko, so I have no idea what you're referring to when you say you were tricked.

Originally posted by Maelis:

but yeah, I do agree that the ending wasn't good, my hate for it coming from the whole uematsu thing and the big monster that was added so randomly

So you agree with my main argument but wanted to attack me over something irrelevant. Odd.

[HAWAIIANpikachu]

Originally posted by Maelis:

why do they not apply to umineko? the premise is the same, normal things are portrayed as supernatural means, so I don't understand why this "move" by the author of raging loop ruin the whole atmosphere while I bet that you think ryukishi was a genius doing that
or maybe I'm just interpreting your posts the wrong way

now on RL, wtf was the deal with fusayakis ex? why was she the sheep, why was she there, did the MC even give slight hints in the very first encounter with the clerk?what is the whole loop, all this time I was thinking that everything was a TV show with everyone but the outsiders and chiemi being on it and the snake family broadcasts this to the yasumijijushi or what was their name

There was very slight hints in the first scene, if you read revelations it expands on them more (and it’s bloody adorable seeing the two of them “talk” to each other but not really “talking”). Also their voices (sheep and her) have a similar sound in a different pitch, but the long length between the first time you hear her talking and the first time you would hear the sheep’s voice would easily hide that. I’m not fully sure about the sheep and stuff yet, I need to record some notes as her lines are entirely in different areas. There are mentions of it in revelations. I think it’s basically the opposite side of Rikako’s goal though(?)

The loop was basically by Rikako. Although the sheep also has some control over it.