v2 weapons for hardcore boss kills

[Jan]

Hi.

Do we have any info if there are gonna be v2 boss weapons awarded for 'hardcore' boss kills like in The Surge 1?

[The Undead Watcher]

Most likely, why wouldn't they?

[Mr. Boniface]

Yes, bosses killed the hardcore way will award the player with a v2.0 weapon.

[Acer Spacer]

The real question is; How long until people figure out the way to get the v2.0 weapons?

[JD777]

Day one because I will find them , it will just depend on how fast I can get to and beat the bosses .

[Jan]

After watching the demo gameplay I can already see the way to get v2.0 weapon for it's boss (Little Johnny). And it's rather basic. I hope they make the challenges interesting, as the concept is ok, but the implementation in the first game was kinda meh.

[JD777]

Originally posted by Jan:

After watching the demo gameplay I can already see the way to get v2.0 weapon for it's boss (Little Johnny). And it's rather basic. I hope they make the challenges interesting, as the concept is ok, but the implementation in the first game was kinda meh.

How so? Example the first boss. The writing was literaly on the wall "Use it's weapon against it" not a exact quote. So if you decide on the first playthrough(Not NG+) to not use it's weapon against it and make the boss fight a lot harder than it would be you will be rewarded with 2.0.

Second Boss makes sense too.

Black Cerborus that was pretty interesting.

What would you have done different in these bosses? Or any of the others? Curious. Shouldn't they be some kind of reward based on your observations of the boss? Or should it be some kind of cryptic puzzle that doesn't realy relate to the actual boss fight?

[Jan]

Originally posted by JD777:

How so?

My biggest gripe with the system in the 1st game was that you had no hints for what the hardcore method is when approaching a new boss. For some of them (but not all!) the hardcore method was hinted in the description of the v1 weapon after you obtain it ('this was damaged by...'). Since there is no way to replay the boss in one NG cycle, the player was forced to either:
1. No get the v2 in that cycle.
2. Backup save and repeat.
3. Research the bosses beforehand.

Since you brought PAX - I actually think that it's a bad example and the worst idea for v2 kill in The Surge. The game hints you to 'use it's weapon against it' and then punishes you (I consider getting an inferior reward as a punishment) for doing so. It only hints there is a way to not damage the weapon after you get it. Considering that the first boss fight is the part of the learning process, I don't really like that.

But let's continue:

Firebug. Can't really say much, as I got the 'hardcore' kill on my first try. I wasn't really trying to be hardcore, just methodical, so I decided to disarm him first.

Big Sister. The requirement to NOT cut certain arms was awkward. Although the whole fight was awkward as hell in the first place. And why does Firebug v2 requires cutting the weapon part when Big Sister v2 requires the opposite? Why do game rules change randomly?

Black Cerberus. To get the v2 you need to target his right arm. The game teaches you from the start that you need to cut the right arm of a humanoid enemy to get it's weapon. So it's lame and not really hardcore - it should be your basic modus operandi at that point. There is also a hidden 'super hardcore' kill to get the armor set. That one is actually not bad, but not hinted anywhere and not logical (how blowing up the tanks resulted in getting the armor?).

Rouge Process. Again - cut the right arm. The final boss requires you to use the first trick you learn in the game. That's lame and not hardcore at all.

DLC - haven't played it. Maybe they got more creative.

Come to think of that what we saw in The Surge 2 demo is actually better.
When fighting Little Johnny you can either target his legs or his tanks. Destroying the legs first makes the fight harder as the damaged legs leak poison. But it gives you the v2 weapon that has added poison damage. This makes sense.

[BOYCOTT S-T-E-A-M!]

Originally posted by Jan:

Originally posted by JD777:

How so?

My biggest gripe with the system in the 1st game was that you had no hints for what the hardcore method is when approaching a new boss. For some of them (but not all!) the hardcore method was hinted in the description of the v1 weapon after you obtain it ('this was damaged by...'). Since there is no way to replay the boss in one NG cycle, the player was forced to either:
1. No get the v2 in that cycle.
2. Backup save and repeat.
3. Research the bosses beforehand.

Since you brought PAX - I actually think that it's a bad example and the worst idea for v2 kill in The Surge. The game hints you to 'use it's weapon against it' and then punishes you (I consider getting an inferior reward as a punishment) for doing so. It only hints there is a way to not damage the weapon after you get it. Considering that the first boss fight is the part of the learning process, I don't really like that.

I agree with what is being said here about the challenges.



Personally, I didn't really like them or the way they were handled in the first game.

When fighting PAX I followed the hints on the wall since it all seems like "part of the tutorial" and never expected to be punished for doing what I *thought* was the "best" way to fight him.

I didn't even realize there were v2 weapons until I fought Firebug. As was said by Jan, Firebugs fight made logical sense. I was disarming him because I figured it would give me an advantage and it felt natural to do it. When I got the v2 weapon I immediately realized that it meant I got a crappier version of the first bosses weapon.

That ruined this aspect of the game for me. The bosses no longer were a challenge and were just annoying puzzles. I knew I couldn't repeat them and I wasn't sure I'd be replaying the game or NG+ so I wanted to get what I could the first run. Which meant... I had to look up guides and ruin the boss fights for me to ensure I was doing what I needed to do to get the v2 gear.

I didn't look up Big Sister, because when I saw it had a bunch of arms I instantly thought of Firebug and was like "I got this!". But, much like Jan said... its a complete 180 flip from the Firebug fight. So I screwed myself out of the v2 weapon by doing what SEEMED like the intelligent choice.



I really think they should, and hope the have, changed this aspect of the game. I hate feeling like I HAVE to use a guide to avoid missing things.

If we could re-fight the bosses, even a harder version of them, that would be great! Then we could re-try to get the better item.

If not letting us re-do the boss after a win then when we get our reward give us the option to restart the fight and give us a hint towards the better item. Its dumb that we have to read a guide and then if we mess up, like having PAX take a minor missile splash by accident, we have to die, re-run back to the fight, and try again. Typically I'd be LOVING the game and then reach a boss and loss interest in playing for awhile. Bosses in games like this should be a highlight.

At the very least... we should be given some indication that we are on the "right path" when fighting a boss in a way that will give us the better or worse weapon.


Given the seemingly larger scope of this game compared to the last I'm really dreading the amount of annoying missable content that's likely to be in it. I really don't want to have to ruin boss fights for myself again by using a guide.

[woodboat]

It doesn't seem the minibosses (like the warden in the starting area) have 2.0 weapons but they do seem to have unique weapons. The warden, and the 2 brothers (little johnnys actual brother and the one who unlocks the first lift for you all have unique weapons/variants. However, the fellow right outside the jail is a level 8, but has a mk. V spear (same model as the spears with the round ends, but red instead of blue). He also vanishes (at least from there) if you die fighting him.

There is a preview video where that player has both the V2 weapon off LJ and all the unique weapons (warden, 2 brothers) if you want to see what they are and stats (do no recall who is it, found the video on reddit, it's around 20 minutes or so in length)

[MundM]

I wished there where hints in the game as to how to hardcore kill the boss. Hidden in some flavor text or found dialoge...

[Caidezes]

Man, I was hoping the V2 weapons were removed. It really sucks to beat a boss and then realize you beat it the "wrong" way even if you did the fight perfectly.

I wish they'd make those weapons available later on through some other means. Having to start a new playthrough just to get them all is really tedious.

[MundM]

Originally posted by Caidezes:

Man, I was hoping the V2 weapons were removed. It really sucks to beat a boss and then realize you beat it the "wrong" way even if you did the fight perfectly.

I wish they'd make those weapons available later on through some other means. Having to start a new playthrough just to get them all is really tedious.

Originally posted by Caidezes:

Man, I was hoping the V2 weapons were removed. It really sucks to beat a boss and then realize you beat it the "wrong" way even if you did the fight perfectly.

I wish they'd make those weapons available later on through some other means. Having to start a new playthrough just to get them all is really tedious.

Well, that's really a personal issue on your part. There is no "wrong way" to beat a boss, there just is a bigger reward for doing it in a more risky and difficult way.

[Zak]

Originally posted by MundM:

Originally posted by Caidezes:

Man, I was hoping the V2 weapons were removed. It really sucks to beat a boss and then realize you beat it the "wrong" way even if you did the fight perfectly.

I wish they'd make those weapons available later on through some other means. Having to start a new playthrough just to get them all is really tedious.

Originally posted by Caidezes:

Man, I was hoping the V2 weapons were removed. It really sucks to beat a boss and then realize you beat it the "wrong" way even if you did the fight perfectly.

I wish they'd make those weapons available later on through some other means. Having to start a new playthrough just to get them all is really tedious.

Well, that's really a personal issue on your part. There is no "wrong way" to beat a boss, there just is a bigger reward for doing it in a more risky and difficult way.

Sorry but that is wrong fromt what I heard. Not all methods to get v2 weapons are riskier or more difficult. Big Sister for example is a lot easier if you just kill the arms on one side. Black Cerberus is also easier once the tanks are destroyed afaik.

[BOYCOTT S-T-E-A-M!]

If the game was a shorter game with more replay value, like any of the "Way of the Samurai" series of games, then I wouldn't object to have bosses that you can only fight once and have a special thing you can do to earn a special weapon. But the previous game was far too long for it to be that exclusive of a thing. I imagine this game will be as long if not longer.


I hope they allow you do a re-match against bosses in some fashion in the same playthrough so that you can try for the better weapons. At the absolute minimum... I'd like to see at least SOME clue in-game as what you're supposed to do in a boss fight for the special weapon. In the last game it all came down to luck (accidentally doing it, etc), experimenting via save scumming, or by following a guide from someone else that got it by either luck or save scumming.

Special weapons are a good idea... just the illogical ways you get them and the fact that a single mistake can lock you out of them for an entire playthrough... or multiple playthroughs if you're unlucky is just bad game design in my opinion.

[MundM]

Originally posted by Zak:

Originally posted by MundM:

Well, that's really a personal issue on your part. There is no "wrong way" to beat a boss, there just is a bigger reward for doing it in a more risky and difficult way.

Sorry but that is wrong fromt what I heard. Not all methods to get v2 weapons are riskier or more difficult. Big Sister for example is a lot easier if you just kill the arms on one side. Black Cerberus is also easier once the tanks are destroyed afaik.

Then maybe you should play the game, rather then forming your opinion from rumors.

You need to to let all arms alive in order to get the v2.0 weapon from Big Sister, and the tanks are doing nothing in the boss fight, they are just there to be destroyed to get the full armor set from Black Cerberus.