Rea Ending Discussion (SPOILER)

[jelly]

So Im lost here, After Ren , Mercurius and Reinhard got enveloped by Maria, Did the time go back to 1943 but this time however it followed a different route instead of meeting mercurius and getting superpower?

Did beatrice remember who kai was and did kai remember who beatrice was in the Nihil difficile amanti? (i hope they do)

Ren was Rulsalka son but at the same time in other routes it was man made ahnerbe ??? And so Rusalka has been fighting her son in the other routes???

[jelly]

So which one is the REAL Ending???/

[arcanusblaze]

What happens is similar to the first ending: since Marie kills Mercurius, the new world she creates is a world without Mercurius, where he was unable to influence history. As a result, the members of the LDO all had vastly different fates: Reinhard, Wilhelm, Schreiber, Eleonore, Machina, and Lisa all died during WW2, Trifa eventually died due to natural causes, the Sakurais never got involved and therefore were never cursed, Spinne's fate is unknown but it's safe to assume he died during WW2 as well, Isaak and Johann lived normal lives and still went on to father Rea and Kasumi's bloodlines, respectively, Beatrice founded an orphanage in Japan, where she ended up raising Ren (more on that later), and Kei lives a totally normal life.

No, Kai and Beatrice do not remember each other because their pasts with the LDO do not exist in this world. Old lady Beatrice is fond of Kai, but neither remember anything.

Okay, so in all the routes, Ren was originally Mercurius' Ahnenerbe, created from the mixture of Mercurius' soul and Lotus' soul after Lotus was killed by Machina in the gauntlet of malice. But in Marie's new world in the Rea Route ending, Ren is instead the great-grandson of Rusalka and Lotus, as well as Lotus' reincarnation. Rusalka gave birth to Lotus' child, then gave that child to be raised in Japan. Eventually, that child ended up fathering Ren's parent, but they died at some time, leaving Ren an orphan to be raised in Beatrice's orphanage. Rusalka and Beatrice are aware of Ren's relationship to Rusalka, but neither tells him anything.

TLDR: Ren is only Rusalka's great-grandson in the world of the epilogue of Rea's Route. In every other route, he is Mercurius' artificial Ahnenerbe.

[jelly]

So rea Epilogue or rather Maries New world is not canon? It feels like Marie Route is more canon than Rea route

[arcanusblaze]

No, Rea's route is the canonical true ending.

[jelly]

if thats the case how does it tie to KKK???

[kilicool64]

From what I understand, KKK is a non-canon What if? sequel.

[erneiz]

Basically, sometime after Marie route end, Hajun came into being and fought with the Dies cast. In the case where they lost, the story then goes straight to KKK. In the case that they barely won (pretty much everyone but Mercurius is dead or dying, with him not doing so great either), Mercurius retook the Throne, rewound time and retconned Hajun out of existence but his alteration accidentally made Rea route happened instead.
However, with Pantheon now being a thing, it seems Rea's end is now the what if scenario.

[76561198052001735]

(Spoiler) Canon Timeline/and few facts about Dies Iare universe
Super Short Version (Paradise Lost>Interview with Bey>Dies irae Marie route> Kajiri Kamui Kagura>Dies irae Pantheon

A condense version of the timeline, but somewhat lengthy explantion of timeline of events of the story will rewrite with better spelling, and correct the facts i remember incorrect or just forgot.

Dies Irae Pantheon a mobage (mobile game) not a visual novel if your wondering, if it flops masada says he will make it a VN instead so hope it flops

Mithra called the Truth and First Haven,Hadou God and God duelism ,The Law of the world where people were on the good side vs evil side and endless confict without end in most simplest context

Muzen called The Remorseless and the Second Heaven and God of Daten-Naraku was on the good side of mithra world, then he said f this duelism crap, joined the evil side with law/craving that evil can only killed by greater evil, then murder everyone I mean all life on both sides and overthrew mithra became new hadou god


Events of Pradise Lost happen (not that important overall plot and mostly disconnected)

Satanel called the morning star the Third Heaven, God of Tendou Hisouten, created pure world white as salt without any form sin, without confict also without any desire which kinda sux as it erased free will, his world could lasted forever as it purity prevent satanel own destuctive factor to ruin it, but Satanel used paradox to overthow muzen and guess who was born from that paradox

Mercurius (Fourth Heaven, God of Eternal Recurrence had the longest reign of all hadou god created endless time loop world and basicly made multiple timeline and parallel worlds and some other stuff during his rule on the power of throne was expaned the most.) also he was born a hadou god though paradoxs of several timeline for some reason I can't remenber why but prob convulted and excessive chunni ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Events of DI (Dies Iare) and bey's spoof of interview with vampire movie/book

Kasumi and Kei (not part of merc's plan so that was time looped aka time-wimey stuff

Marie ( Fifth heaven and Goddess of Rinne-Tense, Law is embrace eveyone, allow existance of multiple hadou gods and law cause tthat everyone will obtain happiness if not in thier current life in thier reincreination of thier second life ,and she we born gudou god, but still got her pretty beaten up elllenore ) and she can kill anything though her curse of gultione.

She obtained status by sole fact ren's world would sux a whole lot if he became hadou god rule thorne if understand how his craving would effect the world.

Heydrich couldn't get throne as he was mercurius own self-desturtive factor meaning he part of merc aka if mercuris die he will die too so he could never obtained the thone even if did won in DI would died in draw as result.

You know marie law, everyone with gain happy end in next life that include next hadou god

Hajun (The Six Heaven) Hajun causes events KKK due his Law/craving of being alone, by mean killing everyone else and everything else along that more or less caused by his tumor aka seven heaven be alway with him cause craving go out wack make his power go infinte. he also has power use throne use copys of other hadou god powers though they all could do that as long as thier current controller of the throne or something.

KKK (Kajiri Kamui Kagura) events here after everyone in DI get crubstomped except

A whole lot fights and info dump about throne system in visual novel and ren goes by yato now

Long story short Hajun lose due losing his tumor which he kinda wanted anyway and the cast of Kajiri Kamui Kagura defeat him in his weaken state.

(Japenses sun god name here cuz forgot the name)

Seven haven law/craving basicly activated brought back, or replicated them back the past six world created by prev. hadou gods which lead pantheon.

Mithra lead the pantlon gods agaisnt some outside watcher/force who pulling the strings of the past events and even stronger them, and some other stuff happen such Muzen being mad that mithra alive, and other hadou gods meet one another , muzen decide to fight hajun for bit till Ren/yato/setsuna (setsuna means "the moment" ) decide timestops hajun, and some other cameo from kkk pop up.

TLDR: The new games if produce will follow kkk timeline both the marie and rea canon in context timeline I think but time-wimey stuff happen.

Feel free correct me stuff, I know forgots some key point somewhere or remenber it incorrectly anyways but I'm way lazy double fact checking everything.

Also if anyone what correct my grammer or facts for me pm correction since I'm too lazy bother correct myself.

[Morthra]

Mercurius (Fourth Heaven, God of Eternal Recurrence had the longest reign of all hadou god created endless time loop world and basicly made multiple timeline and parallel worlds and some other stuff during his rule on the power of throne was expaned the most.) also he was born a hadou god though paradoxs of several timeline for some reason I can't remenber why but prob convulted and excessive chunni ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This has to do with Paradise Lost. Basically, Satanael defeated his predecessor, Muzan, by going back in time and retconning him and Mithra's worlds out of existence (creating a world free from Sin). Eventually, he started making more and more modifications to the world to maintain it as a paradise, eventually concluding that the source of evil is a lack of knowledge. So he created a world in which everything is known. Mercurius invaded from an alternate timeline created when Satanael deposed Muzan, born out of a craving for the unknown, which only came to exist in the first place because Satanael made everything deterministic.

Mercurius is unique in that he is the only Hadou God that is present in all moments in time simultaneously (hence his foreknowledge). When he dies in Mitsudomoe, his influence on the universe is simultaneously removed from all moments in time, because he is alive in all moments simultaneously.

Rea's route is the canon timeline. Or at least it was, whether or not Pantheon supercedes this is still up in the air.

The way it goes is Paradise Lost (which is good, but short, though you need to know Japanese) -> IKaBey -> Dies Irae Marie Route -> Dies Irae Rea Route.

Between the Dies Irae Marie Route and Rea Route, Hajun, the primary antagonist of Kajiri Kamui Kagura tries to invade the Throne that Marie inherits from Mercurius. In the route that leads to KKK, Hajun instantly annihilates Marie, thus preventing Ren, Reinhard, and Mercurius from being able to marshal their forces properly against Hajun (turning what would otherwise be a 3v1 fight into a 1v1v1v1 like in Mitsudomoe) thus leading to their defeat. In the canon ending, Ren manages to prevent Marie from dying instantly, and the four of them are able to barely defeat Hajun, though they all die in the process. Mercurius then emanates in the moment of his death, reverting the world to the beginning of his universe and annihilating Hajun's soul from time in the process.

he also has power use throne use copys of other hadou god powers though they all could do that as long as thier current controller of the throne or something.

All Throne Gods have this ability. Mercurius used Satanael's law in his duel against Heydrich in Rea's default ending.

Mithra lead the pantlon gods agaisnt some outside watcher/force who pulling the strings of the past events and even stronger them

Specifically Naraka, who pledged his undying love to Mithra and fused himself integrally with the essence of the Throne. His role ever since then was to prompt a transition between Throne Gods, as if humanity ever advances beyond the technological level of the pre-Throne civilization, the Throne will lose its power over humanity (because everyone will be on the level of a Throne God). Hence why Naraka's sensories (Judas Strife in Paradise Lost, and Shirou Yusa in Dies Irae and KKK) fill the role of assisting in the transition.

and some other stuff happen such Muzen being mad that mithra alive, and other hadou gods meet one another , muzen decide to fight hajun for bit till Ren/yato/setsuna (setsuna means "the moment" ) decide timestops hajun, and some other cameo from kkk pop up.

Muzan decides to fight Hajun and cuts off his finger. Then, because of the rules of the place they were in (fighting between the gods is forbidden), Muzan's arm gets blown off. Ren intercedes to stop Hajun from emanating Tengu Dou again.

[erneiz]

Originally posted by Morthra:

Mercurius is unique in that he is the only Hadou God that is present in all moments in time simultaneously (hence his foreknowledge). When he dies in Mitsudomoe, his influence on the universe is simultaneously removed from all moments in time, because he is alive in all moments simultaneously.

This is probably true, but I want to add a theory. I think there are actually 2 Mercurius in the game, one the actual God, and one his Sensory. And their connection only goes one way, ie. the God Mercurius knows what his sensory knows all the time, but not vice versa (not all the time at least). In effect, the Sensory Mercurius probably doesn't actually know the future, but nonetheless still ravaged by the feeling of foreknowledge everytime he sees or does anything.
I think the God Mercurius only properly shows up at the end of Rea's route (the one wearing the military uniform) just before the fight with Reinhard (and Ren in mitsudomoe), before that it is all his Sensory.

[Gogito]

Originally posted by erneiz:

Basically, sometime after Marie route end, Hajun came into being and fought with the Dies cast. In the case where they lost, the story then goes straight to KKK. In the case that they barely won (pretty much everyone but Mercurius is dead or dying, with him not doing so great either), Mercurius retook the Throne, rewound time and retconned Hajun out of existence but his alteration accidentally made Rea route happened instead.
However, with Pantheon now being a thing, it seems Rea's end is now the what if scenario.

do you know where i could find the gameplay of the dies irae cast beating hajun?

[Gogito]

@Morthra

Between the Dies Irae Marie Route and Rea Route, Hajun, the primary antagonist of Kajiri Kamui Kagura tries to invade the Throne that Marie inherits from Mercurius. In the route that leads to KKK, Hajun instantly annihilates Marie, thus preventing Ren, Reinhard, and Mercurius from being able to marshal their forces properly against Hajun (turning what would otherwise be a 3v1 fight into a 1v1v1v1 like in Mitsudomoe) thus leading to their defeat. In the canon ending, Ren manages to prevent Marie from dying instantly, and the four of them are able to barely defeat Hajun, though they all die in the process. Mercurius then emanates in the moment of his death, reverting the world to the beginning of his universe and annihilating Hajun's soul from time in the process.

Do you know where i could found the gameplay or a statement of the dies irae cast beating hajun in canon ending?

[kilicool64]

Just so you know, even if someone were to show you a video of that, it would be in Japanese. K3 hasn't been translated and probably never will, now that light is dead.