Unarmed Build

[Sir Fluffykins]

I'm still fairly new, beat Stag King around lvl 5 and wasn't happy with my character;

Wanting to play an unarmed Hero who punches his enemies and my first attempts were really bad, I then googled and looked at builds and I see people throwing out builds, terms and numbers and never explaining what they mean or leaving out important details.

I tried to follow the Scaled Fist build where you start as a Rogue, then "level 2, pick Scaled Fist Monk" and can't pick Monk because allignment is wrong.

Does anyone have a solid Unarmed build, explaining it simply and how you play as you go, because it'll be forever before I'm 20 (some guides and youtuber talk as if you're 20 from the start and even suggest mods).

There's so many unarmed abilities and yet my character struggles, while something like Pillars of Eternity, which doesn't even support unarmed, you can just put Str and Dex and watch your character punch like a JoJo character.

Thank you.

[grognardgary]

Monks are hard because of the necessity of so many different stats needing to be at least descent it's a bit better in pathfinder than in NWN but not buy much. And I've never understood the fascination with scaled fist at least wisdom is attached to a saving throw and a fairly important one at that at least if you don't want a DPS guy running about the battlefield like a chicken with it's head cut off.

[Frostfeather]

There are different types of "punch enemies" builds and they can be customized greatly based on your group needs and personal preferences. It's going to be tough for someone to suggest a complete build without knowing more about what you want.

Like is this more of a damage dealer or more of a tank? Do you want to also support allies? Is a Monk dip ok or are you looking for 20 levels of it? (I'm assuming multiclassing is ok if you were a Rogue) Is arcane casting ok? Etc.

Also difficulty level, turn based vs real time, and some idea of how your group approaches combat would help. Like if the group melee heavy or not would be useful to know.

[Sir Fluffykins]

Originally posted by Frostfeather:

There are different types of "punch enemies" builds and they can be customized greatly based on your group needs and personal preferences. It's going to be tough for someone to suggest a complete build without knowing more about what you want.

Like is this more of a damage dealer or more of a tank? Do you want to also support allies? Is a Monk dip ok or are you looking for 20 levels of it? (I'm assuming multiclassing is ok if you were a Rogue) Is arcane casting ok? Etc.

Also difficulty level, turn based vs real time, and some idea of how your group approaches combat would help. Like if the group melee heavy or not would be useful to know.

Okay, I'm playing Challenging above normal, not custom, because there's no nerfing or boosting, everything is as it should be for a real normal run (though I guess I can change options if I have to) and my "idea" is for a character who can get up to the enemy and attack many times quickly, because even though I play real-life and pause, the normal turns are you wait 3 seconds and then launch one attack and if characters start missing it gets boring.

So DPS, but dmg isn't required so long as get as many hits as possible in a "turn" is what I'm aiming for. I believe multi classing is required so don't mind if there's a self buffing option where you drop boosts on yourself to get the effect then fight.

I'd like the lvl20 builds BUT the problem with a lot of them is they don't take into account actually playing the game to get to that point. Fat lot of good a OP Scaled Tank build does me if it's only OP after 50 hours of dying in one hit and there's only 1 hour of game left.

*Edit* I'm not that advanced to say what the team is doing, as said I got to the Stag lord and the game STARTED (11 hours in) and wasn't happy with my MC who's corpse I was dragging through every fight.

[forkofspite]

I never give build advice - absolutely no idea why I feel compelled to do so now.

Easy answer - just go monk (can work on difficulties up to at least Hard, but that's going to depend on the player, of course). If you would like to be better at killing things, go with good strength and take the pummeling style feats. If you prefer to not be killed, go more dex and wisdom and take the crane style feats. For both, take barkskin as soon as you can (level 4, I think).

Like almost everything, the early game is the most difficult. The fighting pummeling style works better in turn-based than it does in real-time because it's easier to charge in turn-based combat.

[Sir Fluffykins]

Originally posted by forkofspite:

I never give build advice - absolutely no idea why I feel compelled to do so now.

Easy answer - just go monk (can work on difficulties up to at least Hard, but that's going to depend on the player, of course). If you would like to be better at killing things, go with good strength and take the pummeling style feats. If you prefer to not be killed, go more dex and wisdom and take the crane style feats. For both, take barkskin as soon as you can (level 4, I think).

Like almost everything, the early game is the most difficult. The fighting pummeling style works better in turn-based than it does in real-time because it's easier to charge in turn-based combat.

I don't know if I'll pull it off but thank you for giving a simple direction clearly without the "you'll want 3 in mobility to of-set the AC then 4 in Rogue with maybe 2 in Paladin-"

[forkofspite]

Originally posted by Sir Fluffykins:

I don't know if I'll pull it off but thank you for giving a simple direction clearly without the "you'll want 3 in mobility to of-set the AC

Well, yeah. You'll want that. Certainly for the avoid dying version. Not as important for the kill them first version (penalty on attack rolls it too much without the crane style feats).

[Immortal Reaver]

Not being able to choose Monk alignment is mistake you made in character creation by not picking Lawful alignment.

Scaled Fist Aasimar Angelkin, STR 19, DEX 14, CON 12, CHA 16. Any Lawful Alignment.
Put skill point to Persuation. Athletics/Mobility/Stealth are also good too as they are reduced by armor and as naked STR monk you will have it very high. Put all stat points from level up into STR. Perception is also good skill, but every companion should have max points in it.

Ki Powers are meh, pick Barskin first then take whatever you think you would like to have. For Styles at lvl 5, pick Hammerblow (more damage is good) or pick Leg Sweep.
Have Valerie/tank start the fight so enemies focus on her first, keep your Scaled Fist behind her, note Monk is fastest class so he will outrun everybody else and can end up right in front of enemies. Also Enlarge Person is very good buff to have somebody cast on this Monk (he can reach from second line). Keep Mage Armor Potions, and drink it for boss fights or for fights that you have trouble with (or cast it from Octavia or Regongar).

Feats
LVL1 Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike - you want to boost AB(=accuracy) early as much as possible (that is also why you start with STR 19)
LVL 1 - Bonus feat - Dragon Style - more damage
LVL 2 - Bonus feat - Blind Fight - it will be nice to have at lvl 7-10 and then at endgame, but there is no other good feat to take.
LVL 3 - Power Attack - turn it off for high AC (hard to hit) enemies
LVL 5 - Outflank - Take it on all melees as soon as they can take it, it is super strong (flanking works by having 2 or more melees attack same enemy, outflank boost flanking)
LVL 6 - Bonus feat - Dragon Ferocity - another damage boost
From now on it is feats for demoralizing enemies with attacks that will then reduces their AC
LVL 7 - Cornugon Smash - when you hit with Power Attack turned ON, it will try to demorilize enemy hit, chance to do so is calculated by Persuation skill.
LVL 9 - Dazzling Display - just prerequisite, don't use it
LVL 10 - Bonus Feat - Intimidating Prowress - boosts chance of demoralize affecting enemies by adding STR bonus to CHA bonus
LVL 11 - Shatter Defenses - this reduces AC (dodge part, like DEX bonus and more) of enemies that are demoralized, super useful
LVL 13 - Dreadful Carnage - makes it AoE demorilize attempt at all enemies when you kill one.
LVL 14 - Bonus feat - Improved Critical - Unarmed Strike - makes critical strikes more likely to happen
LVL 15 - Skill Focus Persuation - boosts Persuation

After that you can do whatever you want, build is finished, you will get to around lvl 18, so do not expect lvl 20 unless you really do all there is in way to get most EXP, or go in with reduced party size.

[Sir Fluffykins]

Originally posted by Immortal Reaver:

Not being able to choose Monk alignment is mistake you made in character creation by not picking Lawful alignment.

Scaled Fist Aasimar Angelkin, STR 19, DEX 14, CON 12, CHA 16. Any Lawful Alignment.
Put skill point to Persuation. Athletics/Mobility/Stealth are also good too as they are reduced by armor and as naked STR monk you will have it very high. Put all stat points from level up into STR. Perception is also good skill, but every companion should have max points in it.

Ki Powers are meh, pick Barskin first then take whatever you think you would like to have. For Styles at lvl 5, pick Hammerblow (more damage is good) or pick Leg Sweep.
Have Valerie/tank start the fight so enemies focus on her first, keep your Scaled Fist behind her, note Monk is fastest class so he will outrun everybody else and can end up right in front of enemies. Also Enlarge Person is very good buff to have somebody cast on this Monk (he can reach from second line). Keep Mage Armor Potions, and drink it for boss fights or for fights that you have trouble with (or cast it from Octavia or Regongar).

Feats
LVL1 Weapon Focus Unarmed Strike - you want to boost AB(=accuracy) early as much as possible (that is also why you start with STR 19)
LVL 1 - Bonus feat - Dragon Style - more damage
LVL 2 - Bonus feat - Blind Fight - it will be nice to have at lvl 7-10 and then at endgame, but there is no other good feat to take.
LVL 3 - Power Attack - turn it off for high AC (hard to hit) enemies
LVL 5 - Outflank - Take it on all melees as soon as they can take it, it is super strong (flanking works by having 2 or more melees attack same enemy, outflank boost flanking)
LVL 6 - Bonus feat - Dragon Ferocity - another damage boost
From now on it is feats for demoralizing enemies with attacks that will then reduces their AC
LVL 7 - Cornugon Smash - when you hit with Power Attack turned ON, it will try to demorilize enemy hit, chance to do so is calculated by Persuation skill.
LVL 9 - Dazzling Display - just prerequisite, don't use it
LVL 10 - Bonus Feat - Intimidating Prowress - boosts chance of demoralize affecting enemies by adding STR bonus to CHA bonus
LVL 11 - Shatter Defenses - this reduces AC (dodge part, like DEX bonus and more) of enemies that are demoralized, super useful
LVL 13 - Dreadful Carnage - makes it AoE demorilize attempt at all enemies when you kill one.
LVL 14 - Bonus feat - Improved Critical - Unarmed Strike - makes critical strikes more likely to happen
LVL 15 - Skill Focus Persuation - boosts Persuation

After that you can do whatever you want, build is finished, you will get to around lvl 18, so do not expect lvl 20 unless you really do all there is in way to get most EXP, or go in with reduced party size.

May I ask a dumb question, why this build is Str focused when it seems all the others want Dex?

[ptirodaktill]

If you go dex unnarmed build, you`l deal 0 dmg for entire first act 1 and half of act2, till you find the amulet of agile firsts. You`l still deal pitifull dmg for entire game as pure unarmed monk, trough, so its not a big deal .

[Sir Fluffykins]

Well I respec'd my guy, used them to head across the map to Nymph (objective being
"Just Rewards" and suggesting "bring vanish" gave away what would happen) but least Monk can motor with his 40 speed.

[Immortal Reaver]

Originally posted by Sir Fluffykins:

May I ask a dumb question, why this build is Str focused when it seems all the others want Dex?

Because it is easier.
-STR is easier to buff, there are more buffs for STR. Items for STR are found earlier.
-You will deal bigger damage right out of gate, while DEX Monk will deal like 1 or 2 damage (unless you multiclass with Rogue) until mid-Act 2. And early game you have problem hitting enemies and dealing damage, as aside from Amiri no companion is damage dealer, and she misses often.
-Dragon Style and Ferocity will really boost your unarmed damage, boosting STR with Enlarge and Belts/Bull's Strenght will make Monk deal pretty good damage.
-If you make mistake on DEX Monk it will make game harder, than if you make mistake on STR Monk. If you would completely eff up both builds, DEX Monk the only thing it will do is to be meatshield, STR will at least hit back.
-STR also deals with Carry Weight, and this makes it easier to carry a lot of the loot early to mid game.

DEX Monk builds are great tanks and late game they ouperform STR Monks. But to get that point you have to suffer early game, and that is bad idea for new player just getting into the game.

[Sir Fluffykins]

I'm doing the Strength Monk as a human and after killing the Warg I got an Amulet to help with unarmed, also a +2 Strength belt.
I took just one level of Rogue Thug because those non-sneak-attack-sneak-attacks can murder opponents and I have enough Dex to still get those attacks of opportunity, but it really feels completely random if they trigger at times, is not like I understand why I'm getting a sneak attack bonus facing an opponent without even having to cast the Intimidate ability.
I wasn't too happy about the Dragon Acid ability, that doesn't "fit" my character but I do use it as this game is full of monsters that need fire and acid to stop the regen.

Did what I could with city stuff then went exploring and currently on an island where invisible Wisps one shot the entire party with force lightning blasts when you get too near. Having to reload and cheese it after knowing where they are seems bad game design.

[biogoo]

Hint: The wisps deal lightning damage only.
(But boss-wisps also cast some non-lightning spells.)

[Immortal Reaver]

Originally posted by Sir Fluffykins:

I took just one level of Rogue Thug because those non-sneak-attack-sneak-attacks can murder opponents and I have enough Dex to still get those attacks of opportunity, but it really feels completely random if they trigger at times, is not like I understand why I'm getting a sneak attack bonus facing an opponent without even having to cast the Intimidate ability.

SA triggers (unless enemy has Uncanny Dodge, so Rogue and Barbarian enemies, so you will most likely not get SA againts them) when 2 melees attack same enemy.

Or when enemy is Flatfooted (againts SA attacker at least), like enemy can't notice you (invisibility, stealth, enemy is blind from glitterdust/blindness/etc.). You attack before enemy takes first action (based on initiative). Is helpless like by paralyze, stun, etc. Use Shatter Defenses or ability that say you will attack Flatffoted AC.

[ConnorG95]

OP I've looked on YouTube too and there's too much to sort through but I found a guy - search for MONO RPG - who explains what to choose and more importantly why. He has a monk video 'Monk Guide for Pathfinder Kingmaker Unfair Difficulty' which I found really helpful, you might want to take a look.