Lingering Performance: No more cycling songs?

[Orion Pax]

Apparently Bards' Lingering Performance feat no longer allows you to cycle multiple songs at the same time (i.e. Inspire Courage + Dirge of Doom).

(Late to the party I know - much of what's out there seems to discuss prior to this change).

Couple questions then:

1) Which songs do folks use mostly: Dirge of Doom or Inspire Courage/Greatness?

2) Would it make more sense to just have Linzi take Dazzling Display so she keep buffing with Inspire Courage/Greatness?

Dirge is a bit better than Dazzling since it doesn't have a check, correct? But figure Linzi has pretty high CHA and enough skill points to pump persuasion, so you could be pretty successful most of the time? Also gives her something to do when not casting that is reusable, since not huge damage dealer.

Thoughts?

[Orion Pax]

Oh and forgot obvious 3rd question:

3) Do people still prioritize Lingering Performance?

[forkofspite]

From my perspective, lingering performance has never allowed the song cycle - I started in late 2020 (second to last version, I think).

1) Dirge or Inspire?
I go with inspire.

2) Dazzling?
I always take it but seldom use it - generally use the single target demoralize due to greater range. I play turn-based and generally don't get close enough to the action for dazzling to be effective. As for relying on the skill check, shouldn't matter. By the time you get the dirge ability, Linzi's intimidate should be more than enough to work 100% of the time (100% is probably an exaggeration for everyone, but should be 100% for mobs). Unlike saves and attack rolls, a natural 1 on a skill check does not automatically fail.

If I play this game again, I think I'll take skill focus (probably trickery) with her bard talent at level 2 rather than weapon focus (prereq for Dazzling which I generally take at level 5). Instead, if I really want dazzling, I won't get it until level 7.

3) Prioritize Lingering?
100% yes!!! This effectively triples her performance rounds. Toggle on and immediately off - uses one round of performance and the effect lasts three rounds (the one round it should plus two additional). As a bonus, Linzi also picks up inspire competence at level 3 - extremely useful for the various skill checks (such at the athletics / mobility checks at the Old Sycamore).

[Frostfeather]

1 - Inspire. Too many enemies are immune to Dirge and it's usually not needed anyway. Not to mention there are always other solutions. This will depend on the situation and your group setup though.

2 - I don't bother with Dazzling on Bards, personally. First, I would take a custom Bard over Linzi to ensure they have more options to contribute in combat without spending a lot of resources. That or I'd respec Linzi for the same reason. Or I'd give her a crossbow and proc Seize the Moment with its crits. Or even use scrolls and wands and feed people potions, if nothing else.

If I really want area Demoralize, I'll have a Fire Kineticist take Dreadful Carnage as they can get it early and easily proc it in fights where it can be somewhat useful.

3 - Yes, always.

[jsaving]

The sole purpose of dirge is to give you an effective way to trigger shatter defenses.
If you are building your front-line around shatter, and have gotten to a point in the game where everyone has actually taken it, but you lack other reliable means for triggering it, then dirge will generally provide a bigger boost to party DPS than inspire.

But there are a lot of "ifs" there that would determine whether using it is actually right for you. It's pretty common for people following online builds to use dirge at the onset of each encounter simply because the build tells them to, without understanding it doesn't do any good unless you've got shatter on several characters and are at a point in the game where dirge is your only/best way to trigger it.

100% agree with @forkofspite and @night4 on lingering. Its main point is not to let you benefit from two songs at once, but rather to let your bard cast, tank, etc without sacrificing inspire/dirge.

[Orion Pax]

All good stuff, thanks all. Yeah honestly my main reason for considering Dazzling on Linzi was to give her something to do after firing a control spell (if she needs to & has any left). I suppose I could try a bit more to have her ready to heal or what have you, but unless it's dire I thought it made more sense to do after battle to keep each character contributing? In my first couple builds felt like I wasted 2 feats to steady her crossbow skills, which gave diminishing returns fast.

Outside of that I do feel like I've got a pretty decent enchanter build, with early Greater Spell Focus, etc. Just trying to fill in the gaps - hadn't really used much Dazzling so was curious to try it. But Daze or control spell wands/scrolls may have to be the way to go.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Orion Pax:

All good stuff, thanks all. Yeah honestly my main reason for considering Dazzling on Linzi was to give her something to do after firing a control spell (if she needs to & has any left).

Sure, and it's not that Dazzling is terrible. It can easily be a good way for her to spend an action, if the effect is likely to benefit your group somewhat. It's just that the way I tend to run my own groups means that Dazzling on a Bard isn't usually quite as useful. No real right or wrong there really.

Originally posted by Orion Pax:

I suppose I could try a bit more to have her ready to heal or what have you, but unless it's dire I thought it made more sense to do after battle to keep each character contributing?

It is usually, but if I'm playing on a difficulty closer to normal, I might have a less combat-oriented character like Linzi do some healing in easier fights just to cut down on downtime and keep things moving. The higher the difficulty and the harder the fight, the less you'd probably want to do that tho.