Kingmaker verse Wraith Similar to BG vrse BGII?

[JC]

I did read some threads about the difference, but i still have this question. I read the stories are not a continuation, but i'm talking about the over all feel. BGII was basically a strait up upgrade to a great game. There are little things in BG that i really enjoyed more, but the over all experience to me was BGII was just a more polished game with more interaction and just a improved game all around.

It makes me wonder if this is similar.

Thoughts?

[Frostfeather]

Wrath improved in some ways, but also inherited a lot of unfixed Kingmaker bugs, then expanded on those bugs with mythic abilities. And added tons more bugs. Tabletop Tweaks can fix a few, but it's still much buggier than I'd expect it to be for its age.

To me, Wrath feels like it tried too hard and mostly failed. Mostly because Owlcat made the exact same mistakes they did with Kingmaker.

[AkumaOuja]

Wrath has more stuff to customize and a more focused and short story that, ironically, is a lot more inward focused and small scope in the sense of being very much a character piece, has a few fixes and so on, but overall Kingmaker's the stronger game with better pacing.

[ptirodaktill]

I don`t like wrath cause its oversaturated with the same boring generic encounters. Wrath have more archtypes, but who care if 3/4f of them are unplayable w/o scald song+cleric domains cause you won`t hit anything. Also recent updates pretty much removed blaster caster from the game.
Kingmaker is just better. Better locations, better characters, better encounters.

[JC]

Hmmm, It seams like perhaps it's not a strait up upgrade, but they sounds like they are a bit different.

I have a few friends that have played it a ton, but neither played kingmaker. For 2.99 i think i'll just grab that for starters.

But if anyone else wants to drop more info, feel free :)

[Frostfeather]

To add on: I think Kingmaker tends to appeal a bit more to those looking for a traditional style fantasy adventure, whereas Wrath seems to appeal to more of a power fantasy type player. The power creep in Wrath (on both sides but especially the player's) is pretty crazy and rivals the power creep in ToB.

So it kind of depends on what you're looking for.

[Immortal Reaver]

BG1 felt to me like Kingmaker. Foresty areas, more low fantasy with traditional fantasy style, until latter chapters.
BG2 felt like WotR. Mages and clerics that can cast high level spells behind every corner, magic items too. MC gets super powerful, becomes basicaly demigod.
Main stories have similiar tones with conspiracy againts you and kingdom in BG1 and Kingmaker, while in BG2 and WotR it is more about your unnatural powers.

[FunkyMonkey]

Originally posted by ptirodaktill:

I don`t like wrath cause its oversaturated with the same boring generic encounters. Wrath have more archtypes, but who care if 3/4f of them are unplayable w/o scald song+cleric domains cause you won`t hit anything. Also recent updates pretty much removed blaster caster from the game.
Kingmaker is just better. Better locations, better characters, better encounters.

I also prefer Kingmaker's more grounded story over Wrath. Wrath also doubles down on the parts that I don't enjoy in Pathfinder, namely excessive pre-buffing. Kingmaker is tolerable, but Wrath get's pretty ridiculous late-game.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

Wrath also doubles down on the parts that I don't enjoy in Pathfinder

And the puzzles!

"I loved Nenio's puzzle quest in Wrath" said no one ever.

[JC]

Originally posted by night4:

Originally posted by FunkyMonkey:

Wrath also doubles down on the parts that I don't enjoy in Pathfinder

And the puzzles!

"I loved Nenio's puzzle quest in Wrath" said no one ever.

What do you mean by puzzles? I actually do play games with puzzles like point and clicks, and i've been tempted to pick up the new bards tale and that one has puzzles, though i haven't played it so no clue how they work. Tomb raider is another puzzle game that i enjoy from time to time and would more if i could do the damn jumps, but that's another story.

[Frostfeather]

Owlcat's approach to adding "puzzles" in these games doesn't really work so well for many players. Instead of improving or streamlining puzzle design in Wrath, they made them more ridiculous.

I think puzzles can work well, like in Knights of the Chalice 2 or Lufia 2 or BG2 or many Zelda games. Shorter, creative, clever puzzles or riddles tend to work. Owlcat likes tedious, drawn out puzzles with lots of tiny switches or tiles with horrendous UI fighting you every step of the way. Wrath has some of the worst I've ever seen. There's a lot of hate for Wrath's puzzles on Reddit in particular, if you'd like to read more about them.

[JC]

Lol no thanks, but i appreciate the info. I didn't even know the game had puzzles. I know it has some sort of base/war management though.

You guys sold me though, I'm gonna go grab a steam card for my account tomorrow and add the game. :)

[ptirodaktill]

I skipped most non-story related puzzles in wrath and never finished Nenio quest. IRC you have to place around 80 tiny tiles in required order, but even if you know the order its almost impossible to tell which tile goes where, cose its so small

[JC]

Is that a scaling resolution issue? I know some games when people play over 1080p, somethings don't scale right are are tiny.

I'm also a fan of hidden object games and those are loaded with puzzles, though sometimes they can be incredibly challenging. thankfully a lot of those style games have a "skip" button if you decide to give up, which happens to me from time to time.

So are there ways to skip them, or is going to a guide the only way? For instance mass effect andromeda had this thing called a Remnant key, which you could use to skip the sudku style puzzles.

[AkumaOuja]

Originally posted by JC:

Is that a scaling resolution issue? I know some games when people play over 1080p, somethings don't scale right are are tiny.

I'm also a fan of hidden object games and those are loaded with puzzles, though sometimes they can be incredibly challenging. thankfully a lot of those style games have a "skip" button if you decide to give up, which happens to me from time to time.

So are there ways to skip them, or is going to a guide the only way? For instance mass effect andromeda had this thing called a Remnant key, which you could use to skip the sudku style puzzles.

No it's because there's not really an interface and all the pieces you need to place are functionally identical and keeping track of what's even supposed to go where let alone if you put the right one in the right places is virtually impossible. I love Nenio, and I'm good at puzzles, I also like convoluted secret endings that require you to do a bunch of finnicky ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I've bought multiple copies of this game for people even at full price because I love it and most of Owlcats games.

If I ever meet whoever designed the Nenio puzzles in Wrath I'll be sorely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ tempted to kill them, it's that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awful.

There is no skip, you have to place the tiles manually, good ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ luck.

[Babbles]

Originally posted by night4:

To add on: I think Kingmaker tends to appeal a bit more to those looking for a traditional style fantasy adventure, whereas Wrath seems to appeal to more of a power fantasy type player. The power creep in Wrath (on both sides but especially the player's) is pretty crazy and rivals the power creep in ToB.

So it kind of depends on what you're looking for.

This is a really good answer, OP!