Pathfinder: Kingmaker

Pathfinder: Kingmaker

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SMJSMOK 2020 年 7 月 26 日 上午 1:48
Future of the genre
I see a lot of people using the failure of Deadfire to claim that this genre of games (huge deep CRPGs with RTwP combat) is dead, that is was just a part of CRPG nostalgia wave that has come and gone. Over at BG3 forums, everyone who dares to mention that they prefer RTwP combat gets shot down as some biased nostalgia driven freak who just wants to relive the glory days of the Infinity engine. The massive success of D:OS2 kind of speaks for itself.

On the other hand, this game seems to be doing pretty well, so much so that it secured a sequel (and I'm really happy about that). Personally, I'm in the middle of playing Kingmaker and I'm really enjoying it. But I also really liked Deadfire, so I'm not sure if my opinion is that relevant... :)

What do you guys think? Does this type of game have a future?
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目前顯示第 46-60 則留言,共 357
Budoshi 2020 年 7 月 26 日 下午 6:37 
well it worked for pathfinder , PoT.. cant see why not, even if Tb was added much later doesn't change anything this time around if they add it on release. i personally cant see a problem here..choices are always good.
最後修改者:Budoshi; 2020 年 7 月 26 日 下午 6:39
Von Faustien 2020 年 7 月 26 日 下午 7:27 
Deadfire failed because it was utter ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and the worst written RPG I played in a year that saw the release of mass effect andromada. A burning pile of garbage being ♥♥♥♥ means nothing for the genre at large unless exposing Obsdian as bunch of hacks who's half finished games arent worth the disc or bandwith to download without avolone's writting.
Von Faustien 2020 年 7 月 26 日 下午 7:32 
引用自 Aria Athena
引用自 SMJSMOK
The new Shadowrun games also did the crossover of technology + magic and I think it really worked there. Both the setting and gameplay is obviously completely different than Arcanum, but it could be an indication that people want this kind of thing.

There is at least one person who would love to see another Shadowrun game in particular.

Me, I'm talking about me, I'm that person.

i kind of wish hairbrained had made another game after hong kong. dragonfall remains on the best rpg's i've played in the last few years and its a shame they only made one more game after it. I guess they have user made stuff.
Bramhar 2020 年 7 月 26 日 下午 10:11 
引用自 Aria Athena
引用自 thorsson64

Can you substantiate these claims? And purl-ease, no going back 20-30 years in your counting.

I'm gonna go for <turn based combat>, because this is what's at stake here and I don't care to argue what constitutes an rpg. These are only games I've played on PC alone, or have wishlisted, and are probably not ancient. And remember that I asked whether they meant crpgs. (I tried to make it 2 columns, but failed miserably)

3 Shadowrun games
Trails in the Sky 1,2,3
Blackguards 1 & 2
Trails of Cold Steel 1,2,3
Fell Seal
Persona 4
Age of Decadence + Dungeon Rats
"""""""""""""""""""Shadows of Amn"""""""""""""""""""""""""" WTF!
Atom
Forever Home
3 Xcom
Torment Tides
Troubleshooter
For the King
Battletech
Mutant Year Zero
DOS 1 & 2
Operencia the Stolen Sun
Earthlock
Star Traders
Wasteland 2
Corruption 2029
Gear Tactics
Octapath Traveler
Darkest Dungeon
I am Setsuna
Iratus
4 Valkyria Chronicles
Last Remnant
Echoes of Aetheria
Dragon Quest XI
Battlechasers
Lisa
Disgaea however many
Underrail
Might & Magic X and whichever are tb and recent
Lords of Xulima
Halfway
Paper Sorcerer
Templars Battleforce
Phantom Doctrine
Bard's Tale
Cosmic Star Heroine
and 4-5 more from Zeboyd Games
Elminage a couple
Sword Legacy Omen
Expedition's Vikings
Expeditions Conquestador
Wartile
Robothorium
Druidstone

I think I avoided any rpgmaker games and my list is very light on jrpgs, which is a vast sea.

And now waiting for:

Stellar Tactics
Gloom Haven
Colony Ship
Atom Trudgrad
BG3
Solasta
Wasteland 3

My tb needs are covered.

Woow! So many AAA games with budget and quality. Thank you for sharing this because i cant find these games even on google.

Now lets cut the crap if we are talking about "general TB game" there is just one AAA game; "Xcom".

RPG TB AAA game is none and even Wasteland 2 is missing to be an AAA game slightly and obviously not DnD. We are talking about tabletop gaming to pc. Look at your list and say i have proper decency. You are not qualify to talk about even differences between DnD 5 and Dnd 2.
InEffect 2020 年 7 月 26 日 下午 11:04 
To be fair, there were no AAA RPGs since fallout 2 and BG2. And yes I disregard action/adventure with RPG elements. Maybe DA:O too if we're being generous.
最後修改者:InEffect; 2020 年 7 月 26 日 下午 11:05
Somulo 2020 年 7 月 26 日 下午 11:17 
sorry but not a lot of people still understand what one of the best games in genre was and will be - pillars of eternity 1/2

2 was really a good one game - and one of the best looking isometric rpg's in history

its just facts, sorry but planescape was a "failure" 20 years ago, temple of elemental evil was a "failure" back in the days

and now - surprise, surprise.. they are must have rpg - legends. so im sorry

but there are not and never will be holy war between tb and real time based system and rpg

its like paladins go against the priests - kinda funny struggle :D :cozykcdaxe::lunar2019piginablanket:

the true rpg community was small back in the days - and now where are mass people who play witcher 3 and be like - well im hardcore rpg player - i have an opinion

i play whole my life rpg - genre - tb / tactical rpg's / real time - same crap for me :D in different sauces, ave maria..!
InEffect 2020 年 7 月 26 日 下午 11:30 
^Best troll post of the month. I approve.
最後修改者:InEffect; 2020 年 7 月 26 日 下午 11:31
thorsson64 2020 年 7 月 26 日 下午 11:51 
I said don't go back 20-30 years and what do I see in that silly list but 3 XCom. The first XCom was realeased in 1994. I think that counts as 20-30 years old. Bards Tale is even older. Yeah I know they got re-released, but the point is that they were TB because that was the only option at the time.

And the list hardly comes to thousands, despite dragging in all sorts of crap - I mean I can buy a steam key of Sword Legacy Omen for <$1. Many of these games I wouldn't even play if they were free. I guess we should be thankful that rpgmaker games were not included - those you'd have to pay me to play.

I don't only play TB. I played the Neverwinter Nights games for years on multiplayer, for instance. But that's true RT, with no pressing the spacebar (which you can do in SP). RT with pause is really just a poor man's TB. I'll use it if there's no other option if the game's good enough, but it's a kludge.
Aria Athena 2020 年 7 月 27 日 上午 12:50 
引用自 Bramhar
Woow! So many AAA games with budget and quality. Thank you for sharing this because i cant find these games even on google.

Now lets cut the crap if we are talking about "general TB game" there is just one AAA game; "Xcom".

RPG TB AAA game is none and even Wasteland 2 is missing to be an AAA game slightly and obviously not DnD. We are talking about tabletop gaming to pc. Look at your list and say i have proper decency. You are not qualify to talk about even differences between DnD 5 and Dnd 2.

Yeah... I have no idea what you are talking about, go bother someone else.

引用自 thorsson64
I said don't go back 20-30 years and what do I see in that silly list but 3 XCom. The first XCom was realeased in 1994. I think that counts as 20-30 years old. Bards Tale is even older. Yeah I know they got re-released, but the point is that they were TB because that was the only option at the time.

And the list hardly comes to thousands, despite dragging in all sorts of crap - I mean I can buy a steam key of Sword Legacy Omen for <$1. Many of these games I wouldn't even play if they were free. I guess we should be thankful that rpgmaker games were not included - those you'd have to pay me to play.

I don't only play TB. I played the Neverwinter Nights games for years on multiplayer, for instance. But that's true RT, with no pressing the spacebar (which you can do in SP). RT with pause is really just a poor man's TB. I'll use it if there's no other option if the game's good enough, but it's a kludge.

HA, you fell for both my traps. There is a new XCom spin off I haven't checked yet and there is Bard's Tale 4, which I think sucks, but still. Also there is at least one rtwp game that came before 1994.

When you said "no going back 20-30 years in your counting", did you really expect me to find and count 1000 titles you? Go find them yourself, there are easily more than 1000 on steam alone, I only went by memory, library and wishlist, which apparently is full of crap, thanks for that btw :lunar2019crylaughingpig:. I just went through the first 10 pages of the current top seller tb games one steam and half of my list is mentioned there.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. I asked the other person if they were talking about crpgs in particular, because if we are just talking just about turn based combat there are ridiculously many of them on PC alone. Most of the jrpgs I mentioned have only recently been released on PC and only a few entries in the series. It doesn't matter if you wouldn't play them, I wouldn't play Paper Mario, but it's still turn based.

Do you know how I found Sword Legacy Omen? Steam recommends to me games like this everyday. Also why would you mention you can buy this for <1$, like this is a piece of ♥♥♥♥. It's an okay game.
最後修改者:Aria Athena; 2020 年 7 月 27 日 上午 1:16
KellyR 2020 年 7 月 27 日 上午 12:52 
引用自 Budoshi
i think they should always do both RTwP and TB. everyone happy.
The problem with that is that, at least using PFKM as an example, the turn-based mode isn't quite right. Like, even with the turn based mod, there's a lot of things that don't work quite how they should because the game was built for RTwP. Full attacks, for instance. In tabletop you can individually decide whether each attack in a full attack will be a trip, as a really easy example. Can't do that here.
Yoinkyz 2020 年 7 月 27 日 上午 3:57 
引用自 Von Faustien
Deadfire failed because it was utter ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and the worst written RPG I played in a year that saw the release of mass effect andromada. A burning pile of garbage being ♥♥♥♥ means nothing for the genre at large unless exposing Obsdian as bunch of hacks who's half finished games arent worth the disc or bandwith to download without avolone's writting.
see i actualy am a real "gamer" and play my games over watching youtube videos. i also baught mass effect andromada at launch and hated it. but know why? i watched to much youtube.i played it there like 3 months ago and to be honest was fun it has mods to fix things now.poe 2 bad writting???? you gotta replay it and actualy leave does youtube sheepel
dulany67 2020 年 7 月 27 日 上午 4:20 
引用自 Yikes
see i actualy am a real "gamer" and play my games over watching youtube videos. i also baught mass effect andromada at launch and hated it. but know why? i watched to much youtube.i played it there like 3 months ago and to be honest was fun it has mods to fix things now.poe 2 bad writting???? you gotta replay it and actualy leave does youtube sheepel

I agree that Andromeda was overly criticized. In fact, I think it was a better game than Deadfire.
thorsson64 2020 年 7 月 27 日 上午 5:00 
引用自 Aria Athena
HA, you fell for both my traps. There is a new XCom spin off I haven't checked yet and there is Bard's Tale 4, which I think sucks, but still. Also there is at least one rtwp game that came before 1994.

When you said "no going back 20-30 years in your counting", did you really expect me to find and count 1000 titles you? Go find them yourself, there are easily more than 1000 on steam alone, I only went by memory, library and wishlist, which apparently is full of crap, thanks for that btw :lunar2019crylaughingpig:. I just went through the first 10 pages of the current top seller tb games one steam and half of my list is mentioned there.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. I asked the other person if they were talking about crpgs in particular, because if we are just talking just about turn based combat there are ridiculously many of them on PC alone. Most of the jrpgs I mentioned have only recently been released on PC and only a few entries in the series. It doesn't matter if you wouldn't play them, I wouldn't play Paper Mario, but it's still turn based.

Do you know how I found Sword Legacy Omen? Steam recommends to me games like this everyday. Also why would you mention you can buy this for <1$, like this is a piece of ♥♥♥♥. It's an okay game.

Steam recommends me games as well; I ignore them because I alreaady have a pile of games I haven't got round to playing. Sword Legacy Omen got fairly poor reviews (metacritic shows 68/65/50 = average 61), and that it's so cheap already (barely 2 years old) suggests that the reviews were kind, if anything.

Ultima Underworld and Ultima VII RPGs were both fully RT; they came out at the same time, in 1992. They certainly weren't the first RT games, but they were very early. Nevertheless, only a few studios were capable of producing such games at that point. Indeed, the lack of technical resource is clearly still one reason for a number of more recent TB games in your list (including SLO I suspect).

So ignoring JRPGs, because they are a different genre, and ignoring various tactical combat games (which I enjoy, but are clearly something different to the likes of PFKM), what's left on your list is heavy with low cost titles, including various attempts to cash in on old series (such as BT4 and M&MX). The point was badly made elsewhere, but premium games have been largely RT for many years (a case of we can, so we will, or a triumph of technology over design). A recent influx of TB games is simply redressing things a bit.
最後修改者:thorsson64; 2020 年 7 月 27 日 上午 5:01
Decker 2020 年 7 月 27 日 上午 5:04 
引用自 thorsson64
引用自 Aria Athena
HA, you fell for both my traps. There is a new XCom spin off I haven't checked yet and there is Bard's Tale 4, which I think sucks, but still. Also there is at least one rtwp game that came before 1994.

When you said "no going back 20-30 years in your counting", did you really expect me to find and count 1000 titles you? Go find them yourself, there are easily more than 1000 on steam alone, I only went by memory, library and wishlist, which apparently is full of crap, thanks for that btw :lunar2019crylaughingpig:. I just went through the first 10 pages of the current top seller tb games one steam and half of my list is mentioned there.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. I asked the other person if they were talking about crpgs in particular, because if we are just talking just about turn based combat there are ridiculously many of them on PC alone. Most of the jrpgs I mentioned have only recently been released on PC and only a few entries in the series. It doesn't matter if you wouldn't play them, I wouldn't play Paper Mario, but it's still turn based.

Do you know how I found Sword Legacy Omen? Steam recommends to me games like this everyday. Also why would you mention you can buy this for <1$, like this is a piece of ♥♥♥♥. It's an okay game.

Steam recommends me games as well; I ignore them because I alreaady have a pile of games I haven't got round to playing. Sword Legacy Omen got fairly poor reviews (metacritic shows 68/65/50 = average 61), and that it's so cheap already (barely 2 years old) suggests that the reviews were kind, if anything.

Ultima Underworld and Ultima VII RPGs were both fully RT; they came out at the same time, in 1992. They certainly weren't the first RT games, but they were very early. Nevertheless, only a few studios were capable of producing such games at that point. Indeed, the lack of technical resource is clearly still one reason for a number of more recent TB games in your list (including SLO I suspect).

So ignoring JRPGs, because they are a different genre, and ignoring various tactical combat games (which I enjoy, but are clearly something different to the likes of PFKM), what's left on your list is heavy with low cost titles, including various attempts to cash in on old series (such as BT4 and M&MX). The point was badly made elsewhere, but premium games have been largely RT for many years (a case of we can, so we will, or a triumph of technology over design). A recent influx of TB games is simply redressing things a bit.

"If you ignore all the things that prove me wrong, I'm right"
Aria Athena 2020 年 7 月 27 日 上午 5:36 
引用自 thorsson64
So ignoring JRPGs, because they are a different genre, and ignoring various tactical combat games (which I enjoy, but are clearly something different to the likes of PFKM), what's left on your list is heavy with low cost titles, including various attempts to cash in on old series (such as BT4 and M&MX). The point was badly made elsewhere, but premium games have been largely RT for many years (a case of we can, so we will, or a triumph of technology over design).

So the next time I ask whether someone is referring specifically to crpgs in order to avoid this exact ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, I expect the answer "yes" before I waste my time giving examples for the obvious. I made crystal clear what I was talking about. Did it twice to be sure.

Yeah, ignoring tb jrpgs because I guess they are not tb, ignoring tactical combat games like xcom, ignoring low cost titles because ♥♥♥♥ those guys, we are too good for them, and taking into account only games that can be described as crpgs, sure whatever, that doesn't even leave 100 games.

There are like 30 of those in total in the last, let's say ~20 years, only 7 or 8 of which are tb.

引用自 thorsson64
Steam recommends me games as well; I ignore them because I alreaady have a pile of games I haven't got round to playing. Sword Legacy Omen got fairly poor reviews (metacritic shows 68/65/50 = average 61), and that it's so cheap already (barely 2 years old) suggests that the reviews were kind, if anything.

It's 15 pounds on steam and has 72% from users. I said it was okay, I didn't even say it was good. You have just decided that this particular game you haven't played is bad. Well it isn't, it's just fine.
最後修改者:Aria Athena; 2020 年 7 月 27 日 上午 5:54
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張貼日期: 2020 年 7 月 26 日 上午 1:48
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