Are "all creatures" spells useful at all?

[Dingazoid]

I've just started playing this game. I have a few spells that affect "all creatures" in a cone, in a radius from my character, etc. With the way combat kind of globs together as melee units engage, I don't see these as being very helpful. For example, rushing in my Eldritch Archer main character to cast a radius-from-character debuff doesn't seem useful. Should I just avoid learning such spells altogether? Are there better mobility options or ways to upgrade spells later for different options?

I don't know a lot about this system, most of it I'm navigating by guesswork. I did notice something called "metamagic" and so on. Do spells upgrade, are there types of spells I should focus on more? I also don't understand this whole memorizing thing (the dwarf cleric has to do it) but I'll experiment with it :)

[Pilda]

All spells don't have to be useful for your build. It's because you can make various builds. For example, most of wizards use ranged attack spells but you can make a melee wizard so the spells for close range can be useful for you.

[[TGC] MadGod]

You can move and positioning is important when using spells that can hit your party.

If you cause enemies to form a rough line you can use line/cone spells after moving to the side and "aim".

That is easier with Turn Based mode on of course. Since the "Selective Spell" feat is not in game, you might have to look for a mod that offers that feat.

Basically, if you have no experience with Pathfinder whatsoever, steer clear of spellcasters for your first try. There are so many feats and spells that sound good but are crap that you might end up frustrated. Spell casting rules and building spellcasters is easier to screw up than running a barbarian, fighter or rogue.

Read the in game encyclopedia and try running a main fighter character and let the game decide the leveling of the others.

Alternatively, search for the build recommendations and pinned "beginner" threads in the guide forum.

[Uzkin]

IMO, those are usually not worth the hassle unless you are playing solo. One possible exception to the rule is Waves of Exhaustion.

[Immortal Reaver]

Some are better than others.
For example Grease and Web is easy to use while your melee have Freedom of Movement.

[[TGC] MadGod]

Fireball, Cone of Cold, Lightning bolt, Scirocco are not "worth the hassle"? Those can be game changers.

Just move properly and rather not hit every possible enemy and you will be fine. I sometimes hit my party too, but that is what protection spells are for. :)

[Uzkin]

The OP was talking about cone/line/caster-centered AoE spells (Fear, Cone of Cold, Waves of Fatigue, etc.), not ground-targeted AoE (Sirocco, Fireball, etc.).

[[TGC] MadGod]

Ah indeed, i missed that. Bad me. Then forget Scirocco and Fireball indeed. :)

Principle stays the same though. Movement until you can safely cast it, cast it. Fear and Cone of Cold alone are staple spells that get used a lot by my wizards, especially DC based ones.

Especially Spells like "Fear" that make short work of enemy rogues/fighters. And I have yet to see enemies cast remove fear.

[Dingazoid]

Thanks for the tips everyone. I can see there's no clear best practices, but I have a few more ideas on what to experiment with in terms of combat and builds now.

[Isengrym]

In relation to what Immortal Reaver said about Freedom of Movement (4th-level spell) protecting your melee party members from the effects of things like web, you can do this for elemental spells as well. Have someone in your party learn (and prepare if applicable) Resist Energy, Communal (3rd-level spell) and later Protection from Energy, Communal (4th-level spell). If you know you want to cast Cone of Cold, have someone cast Resist Energy (Cold), Communal on your party before you head into a fight. Your melee characters may still take some damage, but it will be significantly less. If you cast both the Resist and Protection from Energy spells, you should be able to lob a few such spells without your own people getting hurt.

Delay Poison, Communal (3rd-level) makes your party immune to things like Stinking Cloud and Cloudkill.

You can cast Remove Fear on party members to give them a bonus to saves against fear, then cast a fear spell. Other spells like Heroism also give an across-the-board bonus to saving throws.

Basically, this game is all about buffing your party for success. :)

[xunlaiAgent]

They are very useful but you need to be careful not to hit allies. Fear for example is one of the best spells in the game. It lasts so long that it's basically 1 hit KO if they fail their save.

[[TGC] MadGod]

Originally posted by Isengrym:

You can cast Remove Fear on party members to give them a bonus to saves against fear, then cast a fear spell. Other spells like Heroism also give an across-the-board bonus to saving throws.

All other things Isengrym said are true. Never do the fear thing though. Never. Your characters can fail the save even with +4 (bad will save classes will be screwed, especially if you have a decent DC on the spell).

In the worst case, all your enemies are shaken for a round while the party members run away.

If you have the undead chick in your party, you can do that if it only hits her. She is immune to fear.

In general, debuff/debilitating spells that are impossible to be immune against as a normal humanoid (things like fear) should never be cast with "collateral damage" in mind. Damage spells, it depends. Poison, as mentioned...easy peasy.

[=[NK]= Col. Jack O'Neil]

Originally posted by Uzkin:

IMO, those are usually not worth the hassle unless you are playing solo. One possible exception to the rule is Waves of Exhaustion.

This is bad advice. Learn to place your spells effectively by good positioning :)

[king_of_jamaica]

Spells being a pain in the ass to target is part of the balance when a single well placed spell can wipe out an entire enemy team.

Until you get Stormbolts. Stormbolts is broke as hell.

[Doombringer]

AoE damage spells don't hurt your summoned creature.
(debuffs from them like fear or knockdown will though, and AoE buffs won't help them)

So summon stuff ahead of you to bait enemies into them, then nuke or something...

[Uzkin]

Originally posted by =NK= Col. Jack O'Neil:

Originally posted by Uzkin:

IMO, those are usually not worth the hassle unless you are playing solo. One possible exception to the rule is Waves of Exhaustion.

This is bad advice. Learn to place your spells effectively by good positioning :)

It is not, you just fail at reading comprehension.

Grease, Glitterdust, Stinking Cloud, (Phantasmal) Web, Sirocco, Fireball, Chain Lightning, Stormbolts, and other ground-targeted and/or friendly AoE spells are more than enough to get you through the game and are easier to use. In comparison, the cone/line/castercentered non-friendly AoE spells are generally less powerful and more difficult to use: not worth the hassle with maybe one or two exceptions (Waves of Exhaustion in particular, as I already mentioned).