2-Hand Damage Dealer Builds?

[Orion Pax]

Alright folks. Curious to hear your favorite 2-Hand damage dealer builds?


Random thoughts/questions:

1. How far do you take Vivi dip? Almost all mine get 1 at level 2, usually 3 more after a Monk dip. Is going beyond that worth it for all the Sneak & spells, despite the lost BAB?

2. Is Two-Hand Fighter worth going beyond level 7? I used to think no, but now I am softly attracted to the slow consistency in hit & damage it brings. Also lots of feats, much flexibility.

3. Weapons: Usually I like at least one reach user. Another recent thread explored Glaives vs. Fauchards. The non-reach is more of a question to me. Vanquisher is the finishing prize, but prior to that what? Early on for a long time I feel there isn't a better weapon to me than the +1 Flaming Nunchakus. The extra attack is just too good.

Like until at least your 2nd iterative attack at level 7 (assuming Vivi dip), a Monk weapon is just better, and even still, the 2nd iterative is much lower BAB than the 2 Monk attack. Only non-full round attacks would a non-Monk weapon be better. So how far to stretch that? The game kind of starves you of many good weapons in mid-game like Bardiches, Greatswords, and the like until much later.

Thoughts?

[ptirodaktill]

1. Lvl 6 for wings from feral mutagen.
2. Depend on if you want to micro cleave and vital strike or you just RTWP rightclick everething.
3. If you do a monk-vivi dip you don`t care for reach weapon cause you have more that enough AC to not care about reach. Serpent prince is dope and you can spawn it in act 3 IRC. Another option is Scytne, you can find a nice one near the end of act 4. Bane of the living is the most powerfull 2H weapon in the game, but its a bit too late.
Personaly if i monkdip i stuck to quaterstaff. If i`m sword saint, then its Bane of the living https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysOYm8-BBvg

[Orion Pax]

Originally posted by ptirodaktill:

1. Lvl 6 for wings from feral mutagen.
2. Depend on if you want to micro cleave and vital strike or you just RTWP rightclick everething.
3. If you do a monk-vivi dip you don`t care for reach weapon cause you have more that enough AC to not care about reach. Serpent prince is dope and you can spawn it in act 3 IRC. Another option is Scytne, you can find a nice one near the end of act 4. Bane of the living is the most powerfull 2H weapon in the game, but its a bit too late.
Personaly if i monkdip i stuck to quaterstaff. If i`m sword saint, then its Bane of the living https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysOYm8-BBvg

Totally feeling most of this. After that Monk thread, I got inspired to draft a quarterstaff Monk build that I really dug. Only downside I felt like was crappy Crit range and Crit multiplier, but oh well. I think for the early game it might be my favorite: 2 attacks from monk weapons, 3rd from Feral Mutagen, 4th from Ki Power. It was Monk 11, Vivi 2, THF 7.

Feral Wings I did on one of my fav builds that was mostly Slayer with enough Vivi to get them wings. And yeah I forgot Slayer. Is that the most powerful class for melees? Sneak + Deliverer bonus + Studied Target + extra feats + Opportunist, all at full BAB.

On reach weapons though, I find they do less to protect my people and more add opportunities to hit (in turn-based anyway). Enemies just go around often, there many from different angles, etc. So I give all my melees Crane feats. Reach weapons are so helpful at hitting enemies in crowded scrums, or reaching them across a battlefield, or tandem charges, and on. Full-round attacks happen more often too. It's a quality of life for me.

[ptirodaktill]

In kingmaker all melee works just fine, its mostly a matter of flavor. 2H Ranger is quite good, but you will never see same dmg numbers that Sword saint or 2H specialist bring in late game. I`d say act 1-4 STR vivi/monk is the best. Act 5+ Sword saint and 2H spec get the lead. It also depend on what mode are you plaing. In RTWP its such a pain to use special attacks, like cleave so fighter can`t benefit from extra feats.

[Toxic Spammer]

I think barbarian seems cool, probably an armored hulk, that's just the image I get in my mind when I think 2 handed heavy armor pain, is it min maxed no idea because I bought the game like 5 days ago

[Orion Pax]

Originally posted by ptirodaktill:

In kingmaker all melee works just fine, its mostly a matter of flavor. 2H Ranger is quite good, but you will never see same dmg numbers that Sword saint or 2H specialist bring in late game. I`d say act 1-4 STR vivi/monk is the best. Act 5+ Sword saint and 2H spec get the lead. It also depend on what mode are you plaing. In RTWP its such a pain to use special attacks, like cleave so fighter can`t benefit from extra feats.

Good call on special attacks in RTWP vs. Turn-Based. I do Turn-Based, and even then I've been somewhat turned off by classes that have limited special attacks like Sword Saint to micro manage. Cleave & Vital Strike I can get down with. But it's kind of a bummer to think: is THIS one of the 5 attacks this rest cycle I should use Shocking Grasp or Arcane Accuracy, etc.? That said, Sword Saint is clearly very powerful and has lots of built-in automatic goodies that come online mid-game that I really like.

Actually have a Ranger going right now, base class for a pet. And yeah I am seeing mid-game how I am missing some damage compared to THF or Slayer or something else. Still worth it for a pet, but I think for me optimal choice would be to use a non-melee class for the pet, like Sylvan or Cleric with Animal Domain. Pet wouldn't get Outflank from Sacred Huntsmaster dip, but oh well.

Originally posted by Ding Pao Chinese Spy:

I think barbarian seems cool, probably an armored hulk, that's just the image I get in my mind when I think 2 handed heavy armor pain, is it min maxed no idea because I bought the game like 5 days ago

Another recent thread explored barbarians. I think I'm in the minority of people who like Barbarians, though I've never tried Armored Hulk. I like the extra speed, Uncanny Dodge. Rages are a bit annoying to manage early, but for some reason I find I can hack it just enough until you can get an amulet that prevents Fatigue, early in Act 2.

What makes them unique IMHO is the Pounce ability (available lvl 10), but in the meantime they get arguably the most bonus to attack (to-hit) than other classes early with Rage Powers & Rage Stances. Many of these bonuses scale w/ Barb level, and eventually build into some good stuff later on like better Crits, etc.

[grognardgary]

Any sort of melee type should start out as fighter that extra feat in early game is worth its weight in gold.

[Toxic Spammer]

Originally posted by ptirodaktill:

In kingmaker all melee works just fine, its mostly a matter of flavor. 2H Ranger is quite good, but you will never see same dmg numbers that Sword saint or 2H specialist bring in late game. I`d say act 1-4 STR vivi/monk is the best. Act 5+ Sword saint and 2H spec get the lead. It also depend on what mode are you plaing. In RTWP its such a pain to use special attacks, like cleave so fighter can`t benefit from extra feats.

can't you just right click to toggle cleave on

[grognardgary]

Originally posted by Ding Pao Chinese Spy:

Originally posted by ptirodaktill:

In kingmaker all melee works just fine, its mostly a matter of flavor. 2H Ranger is quite good, but you will never see same dmg numbers that Sword saint or 2H specialist bring in late game. I`d say act 1-4 STR vivi/monk is the best. Act 5+ Sword saint and 2H spec get the lead. It also depend on what mode are you plaing. In RTWP its such a pain to use special attacks, like cleave so fighter can`t benefit from extra feats.

can't you just right click to toggle cleave on

If you are using turn based there is a button that shows up that you can click on. The problem with cleave and entire chain is that it every one you attack has to be in reach, That's one of the reasons it only works well with two handed and reach weapons and barely works at all in RTWP

[Toxic Spammer]

Originally posted by grognardgary:

Originally posted by Ding Pao Chinese Spy:

can't you just right click to toggle cleave on

If you are using turn based there is a button that shows up that you can click on. The problem with cleave and entire chain is that it every one you attack has to be in reach, That's one of the reasons it only works well with two handed and reach weapons and barely works at all in RTWP

personally I think cleave is working pretty well on valerie for me, that with cornugon smash, I guess I'm not really understanding your meaning, I'm level 8 I think but I just right click cleave and she automatically uses it

is this somehow gimping my build in some way that I'm not aware of because it seems like it's working very well, so I don't really get what you mean when you say it's a pain to use special attacks, like cleave

I plan to get it on amari as well because she's always in the frontline whether I desire it or not, the enhanced movespeed just kind of rushes her into mobs usually and cleave seems best for her as well

[Orion Pax]

Originally posted by grognardgary:

Any sort of melee type should start out as fighter that extra feat in early game is worth its weight in gold.

100% Early feats are hyuuuuuge. I often wish there were a race that gave you an extra feat like Human but without the extra skill points and gave some other benefit. At any rate though you can also go Monk first and take Dodge or Improved Initiative as your extra feat.

Originally posted by Ding Pao Chinese Spy:

Originally posted by grognardgary:

If you are using turn based there is a button that shows up that you can click on. The problem with cleave and entire chain is that it every one you attack has to be in reach, That's one of the reasons it only works well with two handed and reach weapons and barely works at all in RTWP

personally I think cleave is working pretty well on valerie for me, that with cornugon smash, I guess I'm not really understanding your meaning, I'm level 8 I think but I just right click cleave and she automatically uses it

is this somehow gimping my build in some way that I'm not aware of because it seems like it's working very well, so I don't really get what you mean when you say it's a pain to use special attacks, like cleave

I plan to get it on amari as well because she's always in the frontline whether I desire it or not, the enhanced movespeed just kind of rushes her into mobs usually and cleave seems best for her as well

Slow believer in Cleave line. I think it's worth trying out and noticing when it is most helpful. For me it's kind of like you said with your Amiri: when you're surrounded and have several enemies in-reach. Of course the better you get at killing stuff, the less that should happen, at least until late game.

Regular Cleave can be useful when on the move as well to get more out of a non-full-round attack. It's obviously much more effective on a Reach weapon user, but the game can be picky on when it thinks a Cleave should apply. I hear it's effect with enlarged characters is bugged?

Positively though, Cleaving Finish works on the tail end of any kind of killing hit you make: from regular attack, charge, Cleave, Vital Strike, attack of opportunity, etc. So once you have it, it's actually pretty nice. It just takes 3 feats to get there, so it's a question of when to do it.

[Slava Ukraini]

you can find a +2 fire glaive early after stag lord and a +5 sonic in pitax. that was I used in my run.

[Orion Pax]

Originally posted by Johnny Spoiler:

you can find a +2 fire glaive early after stag lord and a +5 sonic in pitax. that was I used in my run.

Yup. Those Glaives have been my mainstay for a while. Incorruptible Petal is also Holy, which is great since most of the foes after that point are Evil. Wish there were comparable variety of Bardiches in the game, but usually I really only use the +2 Furious Bardiche if I have a Barb.

Originally posted by ptirodaktill:

Serpent prince is dope and you can spawn it in act 3 IRC.

Speaking of Reach weapons, I have a devilish time getting Serpent Prince before level 11 or 12. When I get to level 4 Relations (~level 9 for my characters), she always gives me a level 3 weapon. Which is quite generous, lol, but when I try to save scum it only goes between items of that level. Prior to that it’s all level 0 stuff, and I haven’t seen that you can save scum normal items from artisans.

I’m wondering if it’s because I’ve usually finished her artisan quest before I get to level 4 Relations? I may try holding off next time, until my Prince comes.

[Gorwe]

What? A simple 2H Fighter with that 2H arch will do(ideally with a Scythe). It's wicked powerful. But I also quite like the Arsenal Chaplain.

[Orion Pax]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

What? A simple 2H Fighter with that 2H arch will do(ideally with a Scythe). It's wicked powerful. But I also quite like the Arsenal Chaplain.

Yeah Two-Handed Fighter is so stable and solid. Early in my playing, I didn't know what to do with all the feats though, so I stayed away for a while. Dips to Vivi & Monk are still well worth it IMHO, for the Sneak, AC, and spells. Two-Handed Fighter is a class that multiclasses pretty easily.

On weapons, I just used Harbringer for the first time for some reason - that thing is awesome on Undead. And you get it right before a tomb. It's +4 with another +3 Insight bonus to AB against Undead. That Earthbreakers are bludgeoning and bypass their DR makes it even stronger. Pretty awesome for midgame.

Part of the question to me is: whether to specialize in a weapon or take what the game gives you? I've done both. I tend toward the flexibility, but now I'm realizing one could just respec at key points, like when you get certain weapons. I found by the end of the game I had more than enough $ to do this. Maybe a little cheesy - but considering the game is coy with what they give you I don't mind.