Companion Guides and Builds 2023

[DMDuncan37]

Hi

I'm new to Pathfinder, I'm looking for a build main and my companions.
I found some builds but it doesn't seem to be current with the current version of the game.

Thanks

[Frostfeather]

The game hasn't really changed that much since release in that respect. The vast majority of changes had to do with bug fixing and kingdom management rather than classes/archetypes.

An exception is that Ecclesitheurge Cleric didn't work at all for months after release (it technically doesn't fully work even now, but it's much better than it used to be). And Slayers were added after release, and Kineticist with a DLC. Most sites with builds updated to reflect Slayer/Kineticist additions though.

So the builds you see should be just fine.

[DMDuncan37]

In the Guide that I have seen and read, the skills (atheism...) of the companions do not correspond to what I have.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1773677006

[Frostfeather]

The language barrier isn't helping, but as I recall, "Aethism" is just a trait some characters (like Valerie?) have. It's not a Feat you can choose. If you're looking for an actual Feat you can't choose, you might not meet the prerequisites yet, but you can see all Feats that you don't qualify for in a drop-down list and check for it there.

And it seems what you linked has Kineticist builds for Valerie, so those builds are recent enough to be used.

[GeorgeJJR]

Originally posted by night4:

The game hasn't really changed that much since release in that respect. The vast majority of changes had to do with bug fixing and kingdom management rather than classes/archetypes.

An exception is that Ecclesitheurge Cleric didn't work at all for months after release (it technically doesn't fully work even now, but it's much better than it used to be). And Slayers were added after release, and Kineticist with a DLC. Most sites with builds updated to reflect Slayer/Kineticist additions though.

So the builds you see should be just fine.

I've started recently too (and am new to Pathfinder), and as you say online builds seem to work fine. Just curious though, what parts of the Ecclesitheurge Cleric aren't working? Tristian seems to do just fine (I've been using him as my healer/buffer without any problems). Is he supposed to be able to do more?

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by GeorgeJJR:

I've started recently too (and am new to Pathfinder), and as you say online builds seem to work fine. Just curious though, what parts of the Ecclesitheurge Cleric aren't working? Tristian seems to do just fine (I've been using him as my healer/buffer without any problems). Is he supposed to be able to do more?

The second part of Domain Mastery doesn't work correctly. If you go onto the fandom wiki, you'll see it's crossed out. I believe Owlcat did implement something else instead that's effectively similar though.

The bigger problem with Tristian specifically is his choice of primary Domain. The #1 reason to be an Ecclesitheurge is to get access to spells outside the Cleric list and load up on them in your regular slots via your primary Domain. Tristian is an example of how *not* to do Ecclesitheurge - his primary domain almost entirely contains spells he already has access to. So he gets Ecclesitheurge penalties without good benefits to offset them.

A better primary Domain choice would help tremendously. Say Fire for early game swarms and area damage throughout the mid game. Heck, even Sun for Faerie Fire would be an improvement as it would give you an option for dealing with Concealment. Or if you really wanted to min/max a merc Ecclesitheurge, a different domain from a different diety like Weather or Water could probably be even better.

[GeorgeJJR]

Thanks, didn't realise the second part of domain mastery wasn't working properly.

One version of the ecclesitheurge I saw suggested was with community and animal domains (for the pet and then guarded health) -- I'm planning on trying it on my second play through, partly because I play no-reload (but only normal difficulty sometimes switching to easy on this, my first playthru) and both the pet and the guarded health look like they'd really help for keeping main char from being killed (ie a restart for me).

For a beginner like me playing no-reload, survive-ability is my prime concern. I definitely wish Tristian started with those two, and after I do the first run with no mods I'll be tempted to download a mod which lets me respec his domain choices.

[Frostfeather]

Community/Animal is a pretty standard merc (or companion respec) Cleric, yeah. It doesn't really specifically benefit a lot from being an Ecclesitheurge vs another type of Cleric, but that's kind of nitpicking because it's still going to be very useful.

Some self-proclaimed min/maxers (not me) say that Gozreh with Weather and Animal is ideal for Ecclesitheurge, I guess for Siroccos and such in regular spell slots plus the pet. But Water, Plant, and Air (all Gozreh) all have some great spell options, too, like Entangle, Barkskin, Stinking Cloud, Horrid Wilting, Chain Lightning, etc. So I could see any of those + Animal being really op.

I have done a Weather Ecclesitheurge before and it was a long time ago, but I do remember that Fire Storm at spell level 7 instead of 8 was surprisingly useful. Level 7 spells for Clerics are usually a bit mediocre. But Fire Storm has such a massive area and good damage that it's great against late game swarms and large enemy groups. You can also use it to pull dangerous swarms from a good distance away, giving your group time to kill them before they reach you. And it's not necessarily competing with Stormbolts for your level 8 slots like it normally would.

[GeorgeJJR]

Good tips, thanks. I've read people playing at higher difficulties (especially unfair) say killing opponents fast is far more important (and doable) than defence, which makes the builds you're talking about make sense.

But as I said, I'm playing normal difficulty (though with no-reload), and my current run (I've had four restarts due to either MC death or total parry kill) emphasising defence has taken me a lot further than the other builds (though still only to finishing off the bloom). I'm not sure if its just me, or if its true for all beginners, but staying alive seems easier playing defence (including retreating etc).

[99Random]

You should have no real issues playing defense on normal.

The main issues are that later enemies will plow through all but the best tank defenses and healing during combat becomes a poor action economy due to incoming damage being far more than healing can counter. An issue on normal but accelerates rapidly on higher difficulties.

[Frostfeather]

I'd argue that high Initiative, high damage/control offense, and ambushing when possible, is always going to make your experience easier, even on normal.

The problem with using a defensive strategy is that no matter how high your saves are, bad things will still happen to you in combat, especially if combat is lasting longer due to lower offense. Then you need more healing/curing in the group, which lowers offense even more..., which makes the problem even worse. Having a high AC tank is more viable, but enemies will switch targets, making a good amount of offense essential for that to work.

And in Kingmaker, there may or may not be a point in the game where enemy difficulty increases significantly, maddening many players who were previously doing decently well. There may or may not be enemies that effectively ignore defenses.

Not saying you should ignore your own defense, but I am saying you'll run into trouble if you don't have enough offense and/or control. Damage preferred over control, as control requires a bit more Pathfinder knowledge and is helped by metaknowledge.

[GeorgeJJR]

That makes sense wrt a good offence being the best defence, though in practice I found going all out on offence has led to two of my restarts (ie I didn't have a character in a position to escape to stop a total party kill -- playing no-reload meant starting from scratch, which would eventually get frustrating). Having one very hard to kill character has saved me from restarting several times, even though that character adds very little to offence -- I guess they're my designated survivor. Especially when I run into a surprisingly hard encounter, where all but the one (my very hard to kill MC) dies.

Though I suspect someone who knows the Pathfinder mechanics a lot better than I do wouldn't need that one-foot-ready-to-retreat strategy even on a first play through on no-reload. I've seen posts about people winning on no-reload on unfair -- I can't imagine how they even got through the first mansion like that.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by GeorgeJJR:

That makes sense wrt a good offence being the best defence, though in practice I found going all out on offence has led to two of my restarts (ie I didn't have a character in a position to escape to stop a total party kill -- playing no-reload meant starting from scratch, which would eventually get frustrating). Having one very hard to kill character has saved me from restarting several times, even though that character adds very little to offence -- I guess they're my designated survivor. Especially when I run into a surprisingly hard encounter, where all but the one (my very hard to kill MC) dies.

Well it's more about a balance rather than just one or the other. And you might think of it as your group evolving over time to become more offensively oriented, as you get more tools to work with.

Like say in the early game, a group might be more 75% "defense" 25% "offense", then slowly more 50/50 in the mid game and maybe more like 25/75 in the late game. The players who tend to have trouble in the late game are the ones who didn't evolve their offense enough and get overwhelmed because they can't kill enemies fast enough.

Yeah it's possible to go 100% offense from the start, but Pathfinder knowledge and metaknowledge would be useful in that case. Not very realistic for a new player.

[GeorgeJJR]

The balance and transition from defence to offence makes sense, I'm already seeing some of that in the three acts I've played (now level 10 characters). In the first few char levels there were so few hit points, and so few buffs, that being one-shotted by an unfortunate RNG could mean a restart. But that's become much less of a problem at mid-level, and the problem now is often being overwhelmed by attrition -- enemy who are very hard to kill and so threaten to wear me down. From what you said I suspect that'll become even more common, meaning I should start to concentrate on offence.

Thanks (and thanks for no specific spoilers).

[Qrasss]

Originally posted by DMDuncan37:

Hi

I'm new to Pathfinder, I'm looking for a build main and my companions.
I found some builds but it doesn't seem to be current with the current version of the game.

Thanks

Owlcat lost the rights to Pathfinder Kingmaker. It's because of this I believe they've stopped updating the game. I've found more than a few bugs. For instance I can't level up my sorcerer past level 3.... So I'm starting over. I can't find any 2023 ready builds myself.