Bow vs crossbow

[thewhitestar]

I am new to the game, but on every charracter no matter is that charr with high STR and low DEX or high DEX and low STR when I equiped bow or crossbow only difference is crossbow always deal a little bit more damage. What is the point then using bow?

[forkofspite]

* crossbows have a crit multiplier of x2 and a crit range of 19-20 (19-20/x2)
* bows have a crit multiplier of x3, but crit range is only natural 20 (20/x3)
* composite bows are bows (20/x3) and add strength bonus to damage

[Gresh]

Some ranged feats are bow-only, like manyshot.

Generally for a martial bow build you're going to want high dex for feats/hit chance and decent strength for damage with a composite bow.

[mbradtke]

crossbows are caster ranged weapons, or for any char with low str, some might be good and have nice enchantments, bow are in general best dps weapons for martial ranged chars, esp. with high str and composite bows.... of course you can also build a crossbow themed ranged dps but not sure how to built that best

[Demosthenes424]

In tabletop Pathfinder, crossbows require reloading and are significantly less powerful at higher levels due to this. Owlcat took some shortcuts. Composite bows don't have a max str rating, give full bonus for str score, and all function as if they have the adaptive trait (which doesn't exist as a consequence). Likewise, all crossbows in Kingmaker function as repeating crossbows - though repeating crossbows *do* exist as a discrete weapon type, oddly enough. They aren't actually classified as a type of weapon though, so nobody can wield them, they just sit there looking pretty if you happen to get one.

[Willheart]

I think people've hit most of the good points. As mentioned normal DnD / PnP Pathfinder has more depth with why you'd choose a crossbow or a shortbow, but Kingmaker simplifies things.

Main thing which should be highlighted is: Bows have reduced damage if the wielder has less than 10 Strength, their damage is reduced for every negative modifier. 8 = -1 ; 6 = -2, etc - this applies to Shortbow, Longbow, Composite Shortbow, Composite Longbow... But it doesn't apply to Crossbows, these don't require or use Strength at all.

Generally the way I think about it is:

Is my strength below 10? Probably use a crossbow, maybe a magic bow.
Is my strength around 10-12? Could be using a bow (bows are comparative to composite here).
Is my strength 12 or higher? Better to use a composite bow.
a RARE exception would be if you knew your Strength is going to be reduced during a fight, you might want to swap your bows for crossbows to avoid having damage penalties from under 10 STR

Heavy Crossbow is superior to Light Crossbow.
Longbow is superior to Shortbow.
Composite Longbow/Shortbow is superior to normal Longbow/Shortbow.

The actual weapon in question might have good special/magic properties that you'd want to use it over something else, but it largely comes down to 'what you want' / 'what works' / 'what you have' for that character. If you aren't multi-classing, weapon proficiency can play a bigger part in restricting what you're allowed to use.

In terms of the critical values, personally I prefer the 19-20/20 threshold for Crossbows over the 3x multiplier on Bows (10% for 200% usually better than 5% for 300%), but the Druid/Ranger spell [Aspect of the Falcon] buffs you to have the best of both on either one, but it's range of personal so you'd need a wand or magic item or something if you wanted someone else to use it.

Outfitting my Barbarians/Fighters with Composite Longbows as a sidearm was probably the most impactful thing I ever learnt for early game (no more raging Amiri Charge for like -4AC into a hive of enemies /facepalm). Feels good opening up combat with two rounds from my medieval firing squad.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by mbradtke:

of course you can also build a crossbow themed ranged dps but not sure how to built that best

Someone using the Mythslayer heavy crossbow with Hurricane Bow and Legendary Proportions up will do 8d8+5 damage per hit, which is pretty impressive. Some kind of EK, ES, or Ranger will make the most of it, but really any kind of ranged build with access to Hurricane Bow will work.

It's not even like you have to wait that long for this since you can get the bow at level 7-9. You'll "only" be doing 6d8+5 until Legendary Proportions, but still.

Anyway, even regular heavy crossbows are fantastic weapons for many characters early on. With Hurricane Bow and/or Enlarge Person, the damage goes up enough such that most early game enemies are easily killed, even by casters.

[talemore]

Because you wanted to use a bow. Majority of weapon selections are fluff.
Likewise the best armor early on is medium breast plate who is stronger than heavy armor.
No matter what you choose is irrelevant.
What matter is the stats and what you get out of it.

As example at first glance furry of blows sounds great but then realizing that the opponent has damage reduction your total damage for each blow is cut down from 6 to 1 or from 11 to 1 and why monk gains magic attacks on their fist attacks later on. This is likewise with two weapon fighting since not only do you deal less damage your critical hits are lower. That's why depending on build a two handed weapon has better critical hits. As long it can land the blows it will eventually hit natural 20's. This is why Amiri feels strong in early game even when she start with lower accuracy and less dps than a two weapon fighter she hit hard on natural 20's as both sides are going down swinging without hitting.

A short bow for example is used by rogues because it's supposed to be a light weapon easy to conceal and able to move around. For light weapons to be relevant the heavy weapons need to be very heavy which they aren't in this game. Not only that shortbows would be considered a finesse weapon for the features of being a light weapon with the ability to be a keen weapon,

That's why if you choose crossbow or longbow is fluff based on that there's only one copy of a weapon and you can't find two copies of one category,

[Kmany]

Many shot with a bow is so damn good

[[SCZ]Celestrian]

short version:
>>if you equip any character that can´t use longbows (or shortbows) with bracers of (lesser) archery, then the character gets proficient with bows.<< (this is NOT in the item description)



long version:

Originally posted by Kmany:

Many shot with a bow is so damn good

just done season of bloom, kicked out ranger for noknok.

example non-respecced linzi:
8 str, 16 dex, pretty much always at range, default is crossbow with those stats. also cant use a longbow without feats, also minus-dmg due to low str, but can easily aquire manyshot. also belt going to be an agi one early on, bc available.

however there´re items that give also give a dex-bonus which doesnt stack with that basic dex-belt. example: steady hands. this leaves your beltslot open for a str-belt, making bows a +/- 0. however linzi can only use shortbows.

here´s the kicker:
>>if you equip any character that can´t use longbows (or shortbows) with bracers of (lesser) archery, then the character gets proficient with bows.<< (this is NOT in the item description)

since linzi (at least mine) uses armor, the bracer slot isnt going to be armor bracers, thus my linzi currently uses the best longbow i have, which is FAR superior to any of my crossbows and enables her to use manyshot.

seems like a good setup for secondary ranged characters that dont throw around a lot of spells during actual combat (pre-buffers), but mostly due to a lack of good crossbows at this point in the game & manyshot. also this makes further str-buffs viable. with enough +hit even enlarge person (bigger bow bigger dmg) and the hurricane bow wand gets some uses drained.

since my sorcerer uses +armor bracers, this is not an option (no bracers of (lesser) archery)). i could use mage-armor but i´m missing the 2nd really good longbow. also too many spells that basic ranged combat is used much.

crit-range is a factor but one i only take seriously on crit-focused weapons with a crit-spec and use of teamwork seize the moment, etc.
haven´t run into a keen bow tho, not sure if one exists.

[Strandly]

You're better off using Linzi to cast spells than some crappy bow damage, imo. Those bracers eventually fell to her because my other party members had better, and I stuck a bow/crossbow on her so she wouldn't move when AI controlled, but the only time she actually uses it is when I'm real-timing trash mobs that don't matter...

[Babbles]

Bow - end of argument.

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