Pathfinder: Kingmaker

Pathfinder: Kingmaker

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Orion Pax 2023 年 1 月 5 日 下午 12:09
Spellcasters - I need convincing
Curious to hear folks' takes on making fun & effective spellcasters. Appreciated all the input on the melee builds post. One comment I think said melee was a poor choice for a main character. Curious if more have that opinion.

My experience with casters thus far has been a bit muddled. Limited casting early, spell resistance & immunities later, are I guess the tradeoff for having big nukes at other times, but have factored into me steering away.

Intensified by other solid ranged attackers already in the group: Ekundayo, and especially Jubilost. Jub's bombs to me have been super effective far more reliably than spells. Especially with Force Bombs tripping enemies that would otherwise often resist debufs; Holy Bombs destroying Undead, etc.

I've seen a lot about how good casters become later. Like Octavia - who I've been able to make pretty decent by mid levels or so, but in part because she gets lots of Sneak Damage from Arcane Trixter. So that's 3 ranged - somewhat squishy - attackers. Plus Linzi usually who already does heavy Enchantments. I kind of don't want to replicate what other NPCs do, so melee has stuck out as a main need, and most consistently impactful.

TL:DR
What are thoughts on making a spellcasting main character that is fun & effective, and doesn't replicate what other party members do too much? (Difficulty: Challenging/Hard)
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正在显示第 31 - 45 条,共 49 条留言
Frostfeather 2023 年 3 月 14 日 上午 11:24 
引用自 Orion Pax
Totally. I almost ditched Transmutation for exactly that reason

Question:
How much did you focus feats on bombs vs. spells? So far I took Ability Focus & Accomplished Sneak but focused mostly on Spell Focus & Elemental Focus for Conjuration & Evocation spells, plus Improved Initiative.

Transmutation is nice to have early for Hurricane Bow, too, since you have few Bombs in the very early levels. Obviously Enlarge Person if no one else is covering that. I think Transmutation is a good pick for most groups, I just happen to run groups with more casters or less reliance on melee attackers.

As for Feats, I tend to take Ability Focus: Bomb, Weapon Focus: Bomb, then several caster Feats like Spell Focus: Evocation, Spell Specialization, etc. Eventually Improved Critical, probably Improved Initiative.

I know that it's probably more of a min/max approach to take Acid Bombs then focus on either Fire or Lightning spells if not some kind of control like Stinking Cloud. But to give the character a kind of theme, I often center my Arcane Bomber's spells around the type of damage their bombs are. So Elemental Focus is another one I like, along with Metamagic Feats to give me good matching elemental spell picks on spell levels where there aren't good options for that element. Like say... Empower to have level 5 Lightning Bolts or Heighten to put Chain Lightnings in level 7 slots. Every Bomber is a little different though, lol.

Anyway, basically, something like 75% of the Feats are more caster focused and the rest more bomb focused.
Orion Pax 2023 年 8 月 9 日 下午 12:00 
Necroing my own post here cuz why not.

Just started a game with Sylvan Sorcerer as my main and wow. Not only do you get the control spells that the Arcane Bomber had, but a pet and Magic Missile to boot. I think I’m ruined on spellcasters now lol. And I haven’t even gotten to the later damage spells yet.

Seems three things in the early game that you don’t have much of make it way more manageable:
1) Control Spells
2) reliable ranged damage
3) a pet.
Sylvan has the trifecta.

I found it even buffs well with Mage Armor & Mirror Image, but also things like Blur, which I took since Grease had me covered so well through Stinking Cloud. And that freed up more level 2 Spell slots for others to do their thing. Wow.
Frostfeather 2023 年 8 月 9 日 下午 12:57 
Yeah Sylvan is so good I don't even usually use it, lol.

With CotW, things get even crazier as you can cast Personal spells on your pet with a Feat. So many possibilities.
Lekker 2023 年 8 月 9 日 下午 2:42 
Anyone knows to dispell "Permanent Backpain" for Jubilost?

No spells or scrolls help.

Maybe it is somehow related with the fact that not only he carries the group on his back, but also the whole Kingdom.
Orion Pax 2023 年 8 月 10 日 下午 4:30 
引用自 night4
Yeah Sylvan is so good I don't even usually use it, lol.

Totally feel that. One of the game’s balance issues for sure.

Playing Octavia along side the Sylvan in the early levels is quite a contrast. Unlike Octavia’s Scorching Rays, area control spells can’t miss and don’t need to overcome spell penetration and can target most enemies at once. The only barrier is whether they fail the save or not, but the area spell stays there for the whole battle - it can get enemies on subsequent rounds, unlike a ray or enchantment spell which are one and done. Also seem to be fewer immunities to the area Conjurations than Enchantments (Linzi).

I know casters especially like Arcane Trixters get better the later the go. But on these harder difficulties the early game is such a bear with weak melees, and casters who can’t affect the battle reliably.
最后由 Orion Pax 编辑于; 2023 年 8 月 10 日 下午 4:31
Frostfeather 2023 年 8 月 10 日 下午 10:49 
Yeah even in my caster-heavy groups, the main early game strat is more along the lines of slowing/controlling enemies with a spell or two and using Hurricane Bow buffed crossbow attacks. The control spells are just so efficient and help reduce incoming damage, too.

It's not really until level 5/6 where the damage starts to potentially turn the tide of fights with a single cast, though it does have uses before then.
最后由 Frostfeather 编辑于; 2023 年 8 月 10 日 下午 10:49
ptirodaktill 2023 年 8 月 11 日 上午 12:35 
I never understood the love for Sylvan sorc. Never liked pets in this game. Usualy a human arcane caster with GSF enchantment and spell specialisation sleep trivialise first act, cause you just run around and coup-de-grace poor sleeping critters. Too bad due to spell barren in mid-lategame enchantment gets absolette at lvl 8, when Deep slumber no longer connect and you have nothing else to cast T_T, but ray`s came online at that level so instead of CC`ing you can just strain out kill stuff.
I think for lvl 1-8 a wizard-enchanter is the best arcane caster due to spell progression. A sinlge deep slumber can end the entire Stag lord fight and you have early haste. And early greater invisibility.
Frostfeather 2023 年 8 月 11 日 上午 9:24 
引用自 ptirodaktill
I think for lvl 1-8 a wizard-enchanter is the best arcane caster due to spell progression. A sinlge deep slumber can end the entire Stag lord fight and you have early haste. And early greater invisibility.

Yes, access to higher level spells 1 character level earlier is just fantastic early on.

It's another reason why I like Arcane Bombers so much, you get that plus a viable damage option from level 1 (bombs, obviously). And you can still CC or buff or whatever too.

Kind of unrelated: I would kill to add some kind of bomber class to BG3. Alchemist, Wizard... whatever, as long as it's got bombs as a class ability rather than what items anyone can throw. Can't wait for more mods in the future when the game isn't getting patches every few days.
最后由 Frostfeather 编辑于; 2023 年 8 月 11 日 上午 9:30
Orion Pax 2023 年 8 月 11 日 下午 4:25 
引用自 night4
引用自 ptirodaktill
I think for lvl 1-8 a wizard-enchanter is the best arcane caster due to spell progression. A sinlge deep slumber can end the entire Stag lord fight and you have early haste. And early greater invisibility.

Yes, access to higher level spells 1 character level earlier is just fantastic early on.

That is indeed a big deal. Haste especially stands out since it does so many good things for you. Octavia is one of your first to get it, but due to her Rogue level, she gets it one level later than a pure caster like that would. I may have to try that.
Orion Pax 2023 年 8 月 11 日 下午 4:35 
Question on Sylvan build:

Not that I'm worried about it being lacking, but I'm second guessing taking Point Blank Shot & Precise Shot at level 7, because her crossbow game is just not relevant. But I'm not sure what else to take since Sylvan's bloodline feats are pretty sparse.

Feats through level 9:
Spell Focus (Conj), Greater Spell Focus (Conj), Spell Specialization, Spell Focus (Evoc), Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Heighten,

Plan to take:
Greater Spell Focus (Evoc), Elemental Focus (Elec), Greater Elemental Focus (Elec), and Improved Initiative as a Bloodline feat at level 13.

I am wondering if having +4 initiative would be more impactful, even if I totally gimp my crossbow/cantrips. Just seems like being able to cast earlier when I need to cast is way more critical than shooting slightly less poorly. Also, I'm not sure how invested I am in using Scorching Ray since unlike Octavia there is no sneak damage. If I need to hit one individual thing, I'd probably use Magic Missile? If I need more damage I'll have Chain Lightning, etc.

Not sure I need Spell Penetration for much. Maybe Weapon Focus & Dazzling since I've got high Persuasion?
ptirodaktill 2023 年 8 月 11 日 下午 10:48 
I never take precise shot on my ray casters, cause it serve no purposes. Early game you will cast true strike anyway, late game your AB will be in 35+ range, so the pentalty is meaningless. Most of the time it won`t even apply, cause you will oneshot stuff with ray.
If you play a DC sorc you need spell specialisation ASAP for 2 DC on favorite spell. Spell pen is a trap, just pick allied spellcaster on everyone at lvl 9 and forget about SR.
Frostfeather 2023 年 8 月 12 日 上午 5:19 
I usually don't take Point Blank/Precise Shot either unless playing real time with a ray caster. And you know I like Allied Spellcaster too, generally, but your Sylvan should be able to get by without it. And Improved Initiative is pretty much always in my caster builds.

When I do Sylvan/Fey, I usually take Improved Initiative at level 7 and Quicken at 13. Then have someone else in the group make use of lesser Quicken rods.

Then usually I take Empowered or Maximize so I can eventually combine Empowered with a Max rod or Max with an Empowered rod. It's more relevant for level 3-4 spells though so you'd have to consider if you'd actually be using Lightning Bolt or Dragon's Breath or just waiting for Chain Lightning.
最后由 Frostfeather 编辑于; 2023 年 8 月 12 日 上午 6:24
Orion Pax 2023 年 8 月 12 日 上午 6:42 
Okay, good to know I'm not crazy, haha. I find Improved initiative to be so useful on all builds. And casters is especially the case of course.

Allied Spellcaster. I can see it, but it does seem like a big feat tax for the whole group, no?Does it stack? If it did then I could see the investment. Or maybe if more of my group were casters? But I usually only have 1 or 2. Dunno.

But on Spell Resistance, I don't think you need to overcome it for most area control spells, right? I guess you may for Chain Lighting. But Stormbolts? When I've used Octavia at high levels I've never had an issue with those spells.

And yeah Spell Specialization is taken super early for my casters. Really efficient bonus. I like.
Frostfeather 2023 年 8 月 12 日 上午 6:51 
Allied Spellcaster does stack. But it's more for bosses in this game. If you're blasting trash with Chain Lightning or whatever Spell Pen is usually not necessary.
grognardgary 2023 年 8 月 12 日 上午 8:11 
Grenadiers have smart bombs....
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发帖日期: 2023 年 1 月 5 日 下午 12:09
回复数: 49