Sleep Causing Prone?

[Dixon Sider]

Is sleep meant to cause prone status? It says on the wiki that sleep causes resting and helpless. But in my game it also gave this bandit prone. Is this supposed to happen?

https://pathfinderkingmaker.fandom.com/wiki/Sleeping

it says nothing about prone here. It would make sense to cause prone also, but this seems too OP

Its also debated here. But they get off topic and I found no concrete answer

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s5e6?Sleep-spell-and-prone

[JonWoo]

Sleep causes helpless which gives the same benefit as prone as well as others. It's probably just listed as prone for that reason.

[NightfallRob]

Also, logically, unless you're casting sleep on a horse or cow, your adversary should be prone lol.

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by Jonwoo89:

Sleep causes helpless which gives the same benefit as prone as well as others. It's probably just listed as prone for that reason.

The enemy gets the -4 from both. So sleep would be -8 total. I dont have the battle log any more but il take a snip next time I sleep an enemy then whack them

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by NightfallRob:

Also, logically, unless you're casting sleep on a horse or cow, your adversary should be prone lol.

Ya that certainly makes sense. But from a balance standpoint, applying both seems OP. One could argue that applying both is redundant (I would not, im just asking)

[Kyutaru]

Originally posted by Dixon Sider:

Originally posted by NightfallRob:

Also, logically, unless you're casting sleep on a horse or cow, your adversary should be prone lol.

Ya that certainly makes sense. But from a balance standpoint, applying both seems OP. One could argue that applying both is redundant (I would not, im just asking)

Balance concerns were never really a thought in D&D. You can beat a dragon with Transmute Mud to Rock and a diabolical plan. You can cheat melee units with a Fly spell. You can just open a gate to literal hell and bull rush enemies into it. This video game and the liberties they took with stats is the closest thing to balancing you'll find and even then hard CC like sleep makes enemies hard to miss.

[JonWoo]

Originally posted by Dixon Sider:

Originally posted by Jonwoo89:

Sleep causes helpless which gives the same benefit as prone as well as others. It's probably just listed as prone for that reason.

The enemy gets the -4 from both. So sleep would be -8 total. I dont have the battle log any more but il take a snip next time I sleep an enemy then whack them

Ah, yeah IDK. I think this is one of those areas of the rules that never got an errata to clear things up. I never doubled up the bonus to hit for melee when I would DM.

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by Jonwoo89:

Originally posted by Dixon Sider:

The enemy gets the -4 from both. So sleep would be -8 total. I dont have the battle log any more but il take a snip next time I sleep an enemy then whack them

Ah, yeah IDK. I think this is one of those areas of the rules that never got an errata to clear things up. I never doubled up the bonus to hit for melee when I would DM.

Ya, it makes sense to have both, but it just doesnt feel like something I would allow given the syntax of the rules

[Shadenuat]

Coupe De Grace them instead of whacking them by the way.

[valky]

Originally posted by Shadenuat:

Coupe De Grace them instead of whacking them by the way.

Yeah, that's a great addition to the game!