Pathfinder: Kingmaker

Pathfinder: Kingmaker

查看统计:
StormWeaver 2019 年 7 月 27 日 下午 9:42
Honest question, why are monster stat blocks altered?
I have been playing the game again after a long hiatus since it seemed like a lot of updates had been made and some mods released. While playing through I found myself getting rolled by the encounters scattered around the maps and when I saw the statlines of these creatures my mind reeled.

I just finished an encounter with four Venomhodag's which had absolutely insane abilities for a party of level 5 characters to encounter (see picture link below). 25 AC, 18 Spell Resistance? 10 cold and electricity resistance and some extremely high saves. Along with a con-drain attack and being Neutral (thus not being affected by any protection spells) this encounter was almost impossible unless I hid in a corner behind an AC stacked shield fighter and focused only on healing her and cheesing position to get hits in. And at the end of it, I was rewarded only 67 experience for each one (I assume per character). While the reference normal Hodag is worth 2,400 xp EACH.

Venomhodag Stat Block [drive.google.com]

Experiance Awarded[drive.google.com]

Pathfinder Hodag Stat Block (Reference)[www.d20pfsrd.com]

Just to be clear, this is reference is the typical Core Pathfinder (CR 6) Hodag, which has no elemental resistances, no spell resistance, and a significantly lower AC and HP pool. If this were just NORMAL Hodag's this would be a CR 10 encounter (4 x CR 6 Monsters, Rated at "Very Difficulty"), but with these advanced ones it blows it clean out of the water to an extreme degree. I don't understand why so many monsters have an arbitrary flare thrown at them, goblins with multiple rogue levels, will-o-wisp with arc lightning instead of touch attacks, and now these. Most people complaining about this game were chided for not being ‘up to the pathfinder difficulty’ but this isn't even following pathfinder, it’s some weird homebrew, and if it were run on tabletop the DM would be ridiculed as a TPK machine. You don't get to save scrub in a table top game, so I certainly shouldn't have to in order to play the game at 1 to 1 pathfinder settings.

I really wanted to play this game as a Pathfinder for the PC game, but it honestly feels like almost every creature has had some finger twisted in its design to make it arbitrarily hard and nearly worthless in reward. I feel like I’ll be waiting around for someone to make a Pathfinder mod for Pathfinder Kingmaker.
最后由 StormWeaver 编辑于; 2019 年 7 月 27 日 下午 9:45
< >
正在显示第 31 - 45 条,共 110 条留言
Pink Eye (已封禁) 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 8:49 
引用自 valky
引用自 Pink Eye
No, its because of this xD
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1817941591

Don't forget the potion (perm +2 to all stats) and the ring later (+2 sacred to all stats) as well.. and by that time your MC should turn into a god anyway :>

edit: cool char
That's the Varnhold's lot DLC on unfair, max level is 9. But I will remember it for my main play through, thanks!
RJM 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 9:01 
引用自 Jonwoo89
Pretty much both of those. They expected everyone to be pretty much fully or nearly fully buffed 24/7 so they adjusted the encounters for that.

To be fair, apart from random encounters that throw you striaght into combat, you can be (and probably should be) well buffed for almost all encounters, saving only the specific buffs like death ward and elemental resistance for specific fights.

I'd love to see a Pathfinder game which behaved like tabletop, but you'd have to significantly prune the treasure, have buffs lasting a shorter time and other adjustments if you wanted the monsters scaled down. Most significantly you'd need the monster AI to be more tactical to be on par with PnP, which suggests turn based and a lot of work on an "intelligent" AI.
=[NK]= Col. Jack O'Neil 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 9:15 
引用自 klaek
引用自 StormWeaver

I would have if I could, unfortunately I've never had that spell in my party (ether not finding any scrolls to add it to the book or picking other spells at level up). Though to be fair, Grease at level 5 would be a DC 16-ish spell, with Reflex 12 they have a really good chance getting past it.

Grease isn't the same as PnP here. they changed it to be rediculously OP. Instead of reflex save IF you fail a dc 10 skill check when you move, here it is reflex save every round while you are in it. Ontop of this prone is a stun. It is a spell that is well worth heightening up to your max level spell slots for the save DC.
I've mentioned this everyone time to owlcat. They don't care
Daliena 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 9:24 
引用自 StormWeaver
引用自 Daliena
Because, playing on normal difficulty, a lot of those fights would turn into a joke with their basic stats, and doubly so if they actually coughed up 2400xp a pop (even split six ways) because you'd be leveling up like a maniac.

What's the preferred alternative, that they just pick out something that has tougher stats to begin with, instead of taking a "weak" monster and applying an advanced template to beef it up a bit?

Edit: A base Pathfinder Hodag has a to-hit bonus of 11. Pretty sure by around that level, many people are building tanks that straight up won't be hit by anything else than a 20 (and that's if they get through Blur first, to boot) with such a meager attack bonus, or at the very least have a fairly small chance of landing a hit. And 19 AC and 60 HP may as well be wet toilet paper for some of the better strikers even among the pre-gen companions, nevermind if you custom-built your own mercs.

That is definitely true, but it’s also sort of the point, normal is supposed to play like pathfinder, that means using the rules for creating buff crazy tanks, so that you can fight the CR equivalent creatures you are supposed to. But I cant guarentee the creatures will attack just the Tank, and the rest of my party, especially casters, have way lower than the 19 AC toilet paper armor, and one round of four attacks from any one of four nearly spell immune murder lizards means I'm down a party member, and since my main character is a caster, If I cant physically block a creature from getting to him, the game ends.

But you can pretty much force them to attack the tank. The AI isn't typically smart enough to switch targets until whoever it's hitting is dead, so send your tank in first to grab their attention, and boom.



引用自 StormWeaver
引用自 Pink Eye
I have no dog in this race. However, OP I highly suggest you lower the difficulty. The random encounters are, well, random. They can be anything, so yeah.

I may have to, but to be clear, this wasn't a random encounter, this was something built in level, inside the expected zone of adventure. Its literally the first thing you hit after a mobility check you find in the area with the swamp witch, and I only just got past the murder wisps, who also have been "house-ruled" with an arcing lightning strike rather than their natural touch attack (as per Pathfinder Core).

I just want to play pathfinder kingmaker with pathfinder rules and pathfinder monsters, I don't feel like that's such an outlandish notion at normal difficulty.

There's a zone you can stumble into at what, level 6-7-ish that goes from dire wolves to a freaking Crag Linnorm hidden away in a nook. You aren't meant to always be able to clear everything in a given zone as soon as you get there, sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

Oh, and for the record, while the wisps can cast Lightning Bolt, they're typically forced to fall back on their melee touch attack if you engage them up close. It really helps negate their murderousness.



引用自 Jonwoo89
Pretty much both of those. They expected everyone to be pretty much fully or nearly fully buffed 24/7 so they adjusted the encounters for that.

TIL that keeping up something like Blur, Good Hope, Barkskin and other 1min/level duration or higher buffs is 'fully buffed'. I thought it was when you went full ham with the 1round/level stuff.
Dixon Sider 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 9:48 
I've mentioned this everyone time to owlcat. They don't care

They probably want the game to be challenging. Good for them
Shadenuat 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 9:50 
The truth is that PnP enemies of your CR are weak. They're not supposed to kill you (because then adventure kinda ends), unless DM provides some heavy contextual bonus to them. You're supposed to go through ~5 encounters of them before they drain your resources.

Which is why DMs often use things like this: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/enraged-cr-1/
最后由 Shadenuat 编辑于; 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 9:54
StormWeaver 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 10:09 
引用自 Dixon Sider
People will always be begging for this game to be easy lol. If the enemies were the exact same as PnP then I would have asked for a refund after 5 minutes of gameplay. I expect my RTwP RPG's to have a high difficulty curve. This game is one of very few single player games that exists that can be challenging in 2019

If someone wants the game to be that hard, they should be able to pick that difficulty (which I would imagine would be higher than normal) I'm not asking for it to be easy, I'm asking for it to be normal. Having to reload, rebuff, and cheese it is the opposite of the Pathfinder origin. If someone wants to have the hardcore murderfest, the game has that option, but I cannot play this game at 1-to-1 pathfinder rules because they have artificially inflated their monster stats, its physically impossible. Call it easy, call it baby-mode, but why is it insane to want to play pathfinder?

I get the draw to the super hard games. But this was pitched (and I backed as a kickstarter) as a 'True to Pathfinder' game. It's intent, from the beginning was to bring Pathfinder to the PC. There is so much here that matches that, but creatures and encounters are so far away from the nature of Pathfinder its mind boggling.
最后由 StormWeaver 编辑于; 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 10:13
Dixon Sider 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 10:12 
引用自 StormWeaver
I cannot play this game at 1-to-1 pathfinder rules
You can change the difficulty however you want. It is very customizable. This game is not PvP, and im very glad its not. You should look at the game functionality on steam before you buy. There is no mention of multiplayer
最后由 Dixon Sider 编辑于; 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 10:15
StormWeaver 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 10:17 
引用自 Dixon Sider
You can change the difficulty however you want. It is very customizable

You have control, but not finite control, you can nuke everyone across the board, turning the balanced enemies into babies, and the hard ones into normal encounters, but you cant just take out the nonsense and house ruled noise that was added in.
Dixon Sider 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 10:18 
引用自 StormWeaver
引用自 Dixon Sider
You can change the difficulty however you want. It is very customizable

You have control, but not finite control, you can nuke everyone across the board, turning the balanced enemies into babies, and the hard ones into normal encounters, but you cant just take out the nonsense and house ruled noise that was added in.

Do you know how to program? If you want to use your specific house rules then make a mod. Otherwise this complaint is basically "I dont like your house rules". Trying to make people feel sorry for you is not the way to get your house rules enforced. Otherwise use the options in the settings
最后由 Dixon Sider 编辑于; 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 10:20
StormWeaver 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 10:19 
引用自 Dixon Sider
引用自 StormWeaver
I cannot play this game at 1-to-1 pathfinder rules
You can change the difficulty however you want. It is very customizable. This game is not PvP, and im very glad its not. You should look at the game functionality on steam before you buy. There is no mention of multiplayer

What are you talking about? I'm not talking about multiplayer, or PvP, 1-to-1 pathfinder rules just means that the creatures in pathfinder (found in the monster manuals) are the same as they are in the game. The builds, the classes, the rules, were all (in general) supposed to follow that logic. It has templates for advancement (which aren't the same as the ones here). And again, I kickstarted this game, and it was created as a true to pathfinder game, and it is not true to pathfinder, I feel fairly legitimized in my concern.
Shadenuat 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 10:20 
Pathfinder itself is a lot of house ruled nonsense.

Set difficulty to Normal, enemies to 1 grade weaker, crits to full - this will make them more or less PnP.

But after level 8 or so you will see what PnP stats actually are for party of 6 player controlled chars and increase the difficulty yourself.
Dixon Sider 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 10:21 
引用自 StormWeaver
引用自 Dixon Sider
You can change the difficulty however you want. It is very customizable. This game is not PvP, and im very glad its not. You should look at the game functionality on steam before you buy. There is no mention of multiplayer

What are you talking about? I'm not talking about multiplayer, or PvP, 1-to-1 pathfinder rules just means that the creatures in pathfinder (found in the monster manuals) are the same as they are in the game. The builds, the classes, the rules, were all (in general) supposed to follow that logic. It has templates for advancement (which aren't the same as the ones here). And again, I kickstarted this game, and it was created as a true to pathfinder game, and it is not true to pathfinder, I feel fairly legitimized in my concern.

1 to 1 pathfinder rules would be PvP. I feel your concern is incrediblly niche and you have the option to make a mod yourself
最后由 Dixon Sider 编辑于; 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 10:22
StormWeaver 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 10:22 
引用自 Dixon Sider
引用自 StormWeaver

You have control, but not finite control, you can nuke everyone across the board, turning the balanced enemies into babies, and the hard ones into normal encounters, but you cant just take out the nonsense and house ruled noise that was added in.

Do you know how to program? If you want to use your specific house rules then make a mod. Otherwise this complaint is basically "I dont like your house rules". Trying to make people feel sorry for you is not the way to get your house rules enforced

What? I honestly don't know where you are going with all this, >> my house rules? << I'm not implying house rules, I'm asking Owl Cat if they might mind opening up a fricken Pathfinder Bestiary, flipping to the monster page and telling me how much non-existant spell resistance a Hodag has.
Dixon Sider 2019 年 7 月 28 日 上午 10:24 
引用自 StormWeaver
引用自 Dixon Sider

Do you know how to program? If you want to use your specific house rules then make a mod. Otherwise this complaint is basically "I dont like your house rules". Trying to make people feel sorry for you is not the way to get your house rules enforced

What? I honestly don't know where you are going with all this, >> my house rules? << I'm not implying house rules, I'm asking Owl Cat if they might mind opening up a fricken Pathfinder Bestiary, flipping to the monster page and telling me how much non-existant spell resistance a Hodag has.

You purchased a video game. Not a PvP board game. Its added for balance, or whatever reason they wanted to add it. PnP pathfinder would be too easy on PC, and it would be PvP. Both are incredibly undesireable
< >
正在显示第 31 - 45 条,共 110 条留言
每页显示数: 1530 50

发帖日期: 2019 年 7 月 27 日 下午 9:42
回复数: 110