Ferocious Worg WAY over Tuned

[AzureTheGamerKobold]

So sitting at level 6 and these thing's are ridicious, +12 to hit, trip attack, and rage on top of it and apparently immunity to mind afflictions to. I don't know who is designing your monsters and encounters but you need to stop with the slapping on immunities, and massive amounts of raw to hit numbers.

A worg is a CR 2 monster

Now by raw a Worg only has a +4 to hit SO explain to me how suddenly they have a +12? i don't know what you are thinking one of these at this level would be pretty challenging but it's never just one of them. Ideally i'd put one of these as a pack leader of some normal wolves, BUT that's not what i'm seeing... instead i'm seeing packs of them 3-4 of them at once and often acompanied by a worg alphna or greater worg WHICH has a +17 to hit...

The main issue with this monster is that they can EASILY hit Valerie who is sporting a 30 AC so how long do you think my other party members last? reg gets pretty much insta gibbed, jaethal follows shortly after, and even fully buffed up these things are way way way way way way way way wayyyyyy over tuned! they have a higher to hit rating and damage then a TROLL!

Again this is why you don't mess with RAW you end up with monsters are hitting WAY above what they should and i get if you wanted to make them a higher CR BUT you've basically made them auto land any attack they swing practically...basically hit val on a roll of around a 13 which means need a fraction of that to hit the rest of the group.

I want to like this game but the more i play it the more annoyed i get and yes this is on normal... i shouldn't be struggling like this against no name monsters on normal, especially when i KNOW they are buffed up beyond what RAW states.

Edit: this has since been adjusted seems like it's been retuned in hotfixes.

[Randomz]

Agreed. Normal difficulty should be RAW. Don't worry though there are about to be a dozen replies about how you just need to customize the difficulty yourself, lower it completely, or just git gud. Ridiculous.

[Harem Route]

But... but... but you actually can lower the difficulty...

Look, I don't agree with the bloated enemy stats either. And in some places, the way they treated difficulty sucks. I don't argue with that. But literally nobody is forcing you to play on difficulties you are not comfortable with. And nobody would judge you for playing on easy or story mode or whatever. You don't have to prove anything to anyone, you know...

[Randomz]

Originally posted by Tom Sawyer:

But... but... but you actually can lower the difficulty...

Look, I don't agree with the bloated enemy stats either. And in some places, the way they treated difficulty sucks. I don't argue with that. But literally nobody is forcing you to play on difficulties you are not comfortable with. And nobody would judge you for playing on easy or story mode or whatever. You don't have to prove anything to anyone, you know...

It's not about proving anything to anyone, its about the flow of the game and how powerful things are in comparison. A troll SHOULD be more powerful than a worg. You shouldn't need to use all of your spell slots and a bunch of consumables to beat a worg and some wolves. It's just an excuse to pad game time and or make the timed quests feel more impactful by needing to rest after every combat. I'm sure these encounters are beatable, the problem is with pacing. I'm all for harder difficulties 100%, but the standard experience of "normal" difficulty should be just copy/pasted enemies from the bestiary. I want to point out that I'm also not against the harder unique enemies looking at you viscount smoulderburn, unique named enemies or other unique "epic" encounters are a great way to spice things up and keep your players on their toes.

[Sigmarsson]

Originally posted by Tom Sawyer:

But... but... but you actually can lower the difficulty...

Look, I don't agree with the bloated enemy stats either. And in some places, the way they treated difficulty sucks. I don't argue with that. But literally nobody is forcing you to play on difficulties you are not comfortable with. And nobody would judge you for playing on easy or story mode or whatever. You don't have to prove anything to anyone, you know...

I like a challenge in my games, I like to think strategically on what can I do to do things better. The way Owlcat handles difficulty is just lazy. "Let all the kobolds have a DEX of 24 and some class levels. Even better let them have bonus to hit and AC. That will make them difficult." That doesn't make the game more difficult in a smart way, it just makes the player relly more on RNG.

Yes, I've tweaked the difficulty to better suit my playstyle. Problem is it stil isn't the right difficulty for Pathfinder. I expected the game to at least have one difficulty that said: this is the Pathfinder PnP difficulty.

[Dark3nedDragon]

Rilly?

I was oneshotting the groups of trolls and worgs on normal

Are you using magic or combat-maneuvers to disrupt the enemy? I used quite a few enhancement spells on my damage dealers

My main character is an Eldritch Scion Magus, stacking on from the Wizard I made to bolster their Stats, in addition to some of their own spells i.e. Shield, Bull Strength, Enlarge Person, Heroism, Haste, Bard Inspiration, a Bastard Sword that is +1 Flaming, an additional Magical Enhancement as a Bard including Keen and +1, along with the Arcane Accuracy.

My characters hit for ~60 or so usually, a single fireball deals upwards of 80 total damage against the packs of Worgs and Wolves. With Arcane Bond I can refresh any of my spells, once, so I can grab another Fireball if I need it, or Reduce Person, Blind, etc.

Utilizing Hold Person and Reduce Person to take out targets that are deadly and of the proper type (i.e. Branded Trolls).

Feelsbadman.

[Randomz]

Originally posted by Satan:

Rilly?

I was oneshotting the groups of trolls and worgs on normal

Are you using magic or combat-maneuvers to disrupt the enemy? I used quite a few enhancement spells on my damage dealers

My main character is an Eldritch Scion Magus, stacking on from the Wizard I made to bolster their Stats, in addition to some of their own spells i.e. Shield, Bull Strength, Enlarge Person, Heroism, Haste, Bard Inspiration, a Bastard Sword that is +1 Flaming, an additional Magical Enhancement as a Bard including Keen and +1, along with the Arcane Accuracy.

My characters hit for ~60 or so usually, a single fireball deals upwards of 80 total damage against the packs of Worgs and Wolves. With Arcane Bond I can refresh any of my spells, once, so I can grab another Fireball if I need it, or Reduce Person, Blind, etc.

Utilizing Hold Person and Reduce Person to take out targets that are deadly and of the proper type (i.e. Branded Trolls).

Feelsbadman.

Wake up in the morning start your day by fighting some wolves while traveling. Forced to spend almost all your buff spells to beat them. Well sure wish we could continue traveling but if we run into anything else were probably gonna die so let's set up camp in the middle of the day and rest up.
Feelsbadman.

[TimidObserver]

Originally posted by Satan:

Rilly?

I was oneshotting the groups of trolls and worgs on normal

Are you using magic or combat-maneuvers to disrupt the enemy? I used quite a few enhancement spells on my damage dealers

My main character is an Eldritch Scion Magus, stacking on from the Wizard I made to bolster their Stats, in addition to some of their own spells i.e. Shield, Bull Strength, Enlarge Person, Heroism, Haste, Bard Inspiration, a Bastard Sword that is +1 Flaming, an additional Magical Enhancement as a Bard including Keen and +1, along with the Arcane Accuracy.

My characters hit for ~60 or so usually, a single fireball deals upwards of 80 total damage against the packs of Worgs and Wolves. With Arcane Bond I can refresh any of my spells, once, so I can grab another Fireball if I need it, or Reduce Person, Blind, etc.

Utilizing Hold Person and Reduce Person to take out targets that are deadly and of the proper type (i.e. Branded Trolls).

Feelsbadman.

How did you build your buffer? I've been thinking about swapping mine to wizard cleric mystic theurge build to get more spells.

[Morteon Eternity's Knight]

Copy pasted response...

GIT GUD MAN.... I BUFFT MEH MINMAX CHAR WITH EVERY CONSUMEABLE AND BUFF IN TEH GAEM 2 BEET SUM WULVZ... CLEARLY U R BAD

Abhorrently tired of people defending this horribly balanced garbage, I have been a Dungeon Master for 20+ years and I have been running Pathfinder exclusively in my games for the last 10.

I have no idea where they got these stats from or who was in charge of them. Whoever it is should be fired. Period.

[Memnarch]

My entire party literally dinged 6 on exactly these wolves on Challenge Mode.

Maybe the true issue is between the chair and the keyboard.

[Randomz]

Originally posted by KaneDrakkonis:

Copy pasted response...

GIT GUD MAN.... I BUFFT MEH MINMAX CHAR WITH EVERY CONSUMEABLE AND BUFF IN TEH GAEM 2 BEET SUM WULVZ... CLEARLY U R BAD

Abhorrently tired of people defending this horribly balanced garbage, I have been a Dungeon Master for 20+ years and I have been running Pathfinder exclusively in my games for the last 10.

I have no idea where they got these stats from or who was in charge of them. Whoever it is should be fired. Period.

It's always the people who have never played the actual game who don't understand...

[VladK02]

I ran into those worgs too at level 5. They wiped me out as well on my first roll. I re-loaded, buffed up, positioned tank in the choke point so you only fight 3 wolves instead of 6 + boss, enlarged Amira so she could Reach wolves over tank's head, summoned undead with priest in the back line to keep worgs otherise busy, and no problem mon.

That GIT GUD paste above, thats the correct one. Im not even min-maxing, and with 3-4 priest/sorc buffs and correct positioning, no issue at all. Learn to use choke points and your barbarian.

[Graygan]

Pfft... it's easy to kill at normal pathfinder levels of difficulty and with everyone at level 2.

Amiri... Potion of enlarge person. Vivisectionist at level 2 for the Str Mutagen and backstab damage. Str Mutagen adds 4 Str.

Get Valerie to fight defensively and put her between Amiri and the worg. You may still have to reload a couple times, but Amiri will smack that Worg back to hell in just a couple or three rounds. Especially with your other characters doing what they can, damage wise. If you have magic missiles or rays or just about anything, you can easily take him down.

Same goes for the shambling mound.

And gods help those poor adventurers sleeping. Took me 3 rounds. Amiri kills the mage, initiative gets rolled.

Round 1 Amiri kills the archer while main faces off with fighter, Valerie and others face off with rogue.

Round 2 Amiri kills the fighter that the main has somewhat damaged.

Round 3 Amiri kills the rogue because invariably she goes last in the round and everyone else just damaged the rogue.

Mix and match to your own party makeup.

I also take Amiri back up the Barbarian line after the 1 level dip into vivisectionist. Eventually you can put a headband of int on her and she can cast enlarge person and shield on herself as well as the str mutagen.

[Kel'Ithra]

The next major patch might deal with this, since there's supposedly a big patch being released by the end of the week or next week.

[AzureTheGamerKobold]

My issue with them being so hard is that they are just random enemies, not anyone special... things like this shouldn't be a challenge its fodder, it's suppose to be easy. I spend more time buffing up and battling random ♥♥♥♥ like this then actual bosses.

[Randomz]

Originally posted by AzureTheGamerKobold:

My issue with them being so hard is that they are just random enemies, not anyone special... things like this shouldn't be a challenge its fodder, it's suppose to be easy. I spend more time buffing up and battling random ♥♥♥♥ like this then actual bosses.

Exactly this. Random travel encounters are just there to spice up traveling across the world keep you busy while you're getting to your big baddie at the end of your quest or something. Not an encounter that makes your journey take twice as long..