Fighter hybrid questions

[mypony89]

It's been a long while since I played a DnD style ruleset game... like NWN long and since my memory is already not the greatest I figured it child use some refreshing.

Is my thinking correct in that you should lvl your fighter type classes first before your classes that have less BaB increase on lvl up?

For example, and this is not an actual build, but if you were to have a fighter mage you would take x amount of fighter lvl first and then finish off with mage.

Also, if this is the case, an I remembering correctly that this only applies up to a certain lvl. In other words, the BaB increase your get on lvl up only harkens for the first 8 lvl of the build?

Thanks

[wendigo211]

That was true in NWN because of epic levels, which this game does not have. I.e. past level 20 all characters had the same BAB (really an epic AB bonus), so you would try to push all those low BAB classes into those levels to maximize your BAB. Since this game stops at level 20 there's no benefit to pushing low BAB classes to higher levels.

If you were doing a fighter/mage you would probably want to do full BAB at level 1, 6 levels of spell caster, 10 levels of EK, 2 levels of spell caster and then finish off with the final full BAB level. That combo gets you a 16 BAB and level 9 spells with a wizard (level 8 with a sorcerer). That would be this game's equivalent of the Fighter 1/ Wizard 6/ Spellsword 3/Eldritch Knight 10 standard Gish from D&D. You're really going to get more from your spells than your martial ability, so you want try to delay your casting progression as little as possible.

[mypony89]

Thanks for the explained answer. Quick question though, why separate the classes like that? Is it from a feat standpoint since the full bab doesn't affect anything ?

[mypony89]

Got bumped to the bottom pretty quick so I figured I'd throw it back up here to see if I'd get a second answer.

[Shower With Joe Dad Simulator]

Your thinking sounds pretty solid to me, im not sure exactly. when your suppose to make the transition over though

[Sir Texas Sir]

A lot of it depends what your goal is for char. I found doing your first few levels fighter has helped you survive early in game. Than start on your casting levels to get them out of the way. It's hard to say what is the right path without knowing the goal for the char.

[AzureTheGamerKobold]

Originally posted by mypony89:

It's been a long while since I played a DnD style ruleset game... like NWN long and since my memory is already not the greatest I figured it child use some refreshing.

Is my thinking correct in that you should lvl your fighter type classes first before your classes that have less BaB increase on lvl up?

For example, and this is not an actual build, but if you were to have a fighter mage you would take x amount of fighter lvl first and then finish off with mage.

Also, if this is the case, an I remembering correctly that this only applies up to a certain lvl. In other words, the BaB increase your get on lvl up only harkens for the first 8 lvl of the build?

Thanks

I'd also suggest you look very closly at capstone or level 20 abilities, pathfinder tends to give pure classes a capstone trait, that makes it worth going pure 20 levels. In 3.0 and 3.5 it was very common to see 1 barbarian 1 fighter 1 ranger for all the free goodies BUT in pathfinder, you would lock yourself out of your capstone which can be pretty amazing for some classes.

Also if you are considering a fighter/mage i'd just suggest you play the magus since they can channel spills into there melee weapon and add it to ther enext attack. it makes for some really potent damage and even CC i really don't do eldrich knight anymore myself because it's not very useful.

The magus can cast his spells in full plate armor by the time he hits level 20, on top of all the other goodies he gets like enchanting his weapon, and all the other neat arcana stuff he gets. If you haven't tried the magus i highly suggest you do.

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by mypony89:

Thanks for the explained answer. Quick question though, why separate the classes like that? Is it from a feat standpoint since the full bab doesn't affect anything ?

A bit of a metagaming perspective really.

Level 1 you're going through the tutorial. You can't rest in the tutorial, so starting as a full AB class gives you an easier start.

After that being able to cast mage armor and shield makes a big difference, so taking a caster level makes sense. You need to be able to cast third level spells for EK, so taking 5 (Wizard) or 6 Sorcerer, in a row makes sense. Since you gain BAB and a caster level on wizard 6 you might as well take 6 either way. At this point you qualify for EK. You won't gain a caster level on your first EK level, but you will on all the others. You could take your next 2 caster levels at this point, but I prefer to bite the bullet and drop a 2nd caster level behind a pure mage at this point. It's also going to help keep your AB competitive with the 3/4 BAB classes (with buffs you should be comparable to a full BAB character though).

Once you finish up with your EK levels, you want finish off filling out those caster levels to get your level 8 and 9 spells, and then you cap off at 20 with your final full BAB level (you won't hit anything with that attack but it's another chance to roll a 20).

I'm not too impressed by Strength in this game. There are agile weapons, so your character can get damage, reflex save, AC and AB from Dex. I'm not really seeing a benefit in going for a high strength character. You also get a higher AC to start and I'm pretty sure to finish as well.

[mypony89]

Originally posted by Sir Texas Sir:

A lot of it depends what your goal is for char. I found doing your first few levels fighter has helped you survive early in game. Than start on your casting levels to get them out of the way. It's hard to say what is the right path without knowing the goal for the char.

I can't really say I have a goal just yet for my character but knowing the ins and outs of how the builds work help a person to know what they want to do and how to do it. It's much the same as a person baking a cake without a recipe vs baking a cake with a recipe and knowing what each ingredient does to tweak the recipe to your liking lol.

That being said though I do remember playing a hybrid caster and having much fun with dmg shields, still having decent Bab, and the ability to use spells. I think one builds was a sorc, fighter and 1 or 2 lvls of rogue. Was really fun.

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Originally posted by mypony89:

Thanks for the explained answer. Quick question though, why separate the classes like that? Is it from a feat standpoint since the full bab doesn't affect anything ?

A bit of a metagaming perspective really.

Level 1 you're going through the tutorial. You can't rest in the tutorial, so starting as a full AB class gives you an easier start.

After that being able to cast mage armor and shield makes a big difference, so taking a caster level makes sense. You need to be able to cast third level spells for EK, so taking 5 (Wizard) or 6 Sorcerer, in a row makes sense. Since you gain BAB and a caster level on wizard 6 you might as well take 6 either way. At this point you qualify for EK. You won't gain a caster level on your first EK level, but you will on all the others. You could take your next 2 caster levels at this point, but I prefer to bite the bullet and drop a 2nd caster level behind a pure mage at this point. It's also going to help keep your AB competitive with the 3/4 BAB classes (with buffs you should be comparable to a full BAB character though).

Once you finish up with your EK levels, you want finish off filling out those caster levels to get your level 8 and 9 spells, and then you cap off at 20 with your final full BAB level (you won't hit anything with that attack but it's another chance to roll a 20).

I'm not too impressed by Strength in this game. There are agile weapons, so your character can get damage, reflex save, AC and AB from Dex. I'm not really seeing a benefit in going for a high strength character. You also get a higher AC to start and I'm pretty sure to finish as well.

Thanks much! So it's more of a survival thing. I agree that Dex would help quite a bit for staying alive and hitting things. The only thing I can think str would be needed for might be some feat which requires it but I haven't even looked through the feet's yet. There's just so much more there than NwN days that's it's almost overwhelming even for a person who has a limited history with this.

So if I did a build similar to this the ONLY respond to take fighter would be: free feat at the beginning, full Bab at fighter lvls and..... Well I was thinking 3 things but the other slipped my mind.

When I finish get the game downloaded and start making a character is there a way to see all the feats available, prerequisites and the lvls they come available? Same goes for spells? In NwN I just created one, used a cheat to give him Max xp then lvled him up from there so I could see the most optimum way of building him. After that if delete him and start the game with that set up in mind. Something tells me I can't do that here lol.

[mypony89]

Originally posted by mypony89:

Originally posted by Sir Texas Sir:

A lot of it depends what your goal is for char. I found doing your first few levels fighter has helped you survive early in game. Than start on your casting levels to get them out of the way. It's hard to say what is the right path without knowing the goal for the char.

I can't really say I have a goal just yet for my character but knowing the ins and outs of how the builds work help a person to know what they want to do and how to do it. It's much the same as a person baking a cake without a recipe vs baking a cake with a recipe and knowing what each ingredient does to tweak the recipe to your liking lol.

That being said though I do remember playing a hybrid caster and having much fun with dmg shields, still having decent Bab, and the ability to use spells. I think one builds was a sorc, fighter and 1 or 2 lvls of rogue. Was really fun.

Originally posted by wendigo211:

A bit of a metagaming perspective really.

Level 1 you're going through the tutorial. You can't rest in the tutorial, so starting as a full AB class gives you an easier start.

After that being able to cast mage armor and shield makes a big difference, so taking a caster level makes sense. You need to be able to cast third level spells for EK, so taking 5 (Wizard) or 6 Sorcerer, in a row makes sense. Since you gain BAB and a caster level on wizard 6 you might as well take 6 either way. At this point you qualify for EK. You won't gain a caster level on your first EK level, but you will on all the others. You could take your next 2 caster levels at this point, but I prefer to bite the bullet and drop a 2nd caster level behind a pure mage at this point. It's also going to help keep your AB competitive with the 3/4 BAB classes (with buffs you should be comparable to a full BAB character though).

Once you finish up with your EK levels, you want finish off filling out those caster levels to get your level 8 and 9 spells, and then you cap off at 20 with your final full BAB level (you won't hit anything with that attack but it's another chance to roll a 20).

I'm not too impressed by Strength in this game. There are agile weapons, so your character can get damage, reflex save, AC and AB from Dex. I'm not really seeing a benefit in going for a high strength character. You also get a higher AC to start and I'm pretty sure to finish as well.

Thanks much! So it's more of a survival thing. I agree that Dex would help quite a bit for staying alive and hitting things. The only thing I can think str would be needed for might be some feat which requires it but I haven't even looked through the feet's yet. There's just so much more there than NwN days that's it's almost overwhelming even for a person who has a limited history with this.

So if I did a build similar to this the ONLY respond to take fighter would be: free feat at the beginning, full Bab at fighter lvls and..... Well I was thinking 3 things but the other slipped my mind.

When I finish get the game downloaded and start making a character is there a way to see all the feats available, prerequisites and the lvls they come available? Same goes for spells? In NwN I just created one, used a cheat to give him Max xp then lvled him up from there so I could see the most optimum way of building him. After that if delete him and start the game with that set up in mind. Something tells me I can't do that here lol.

@AzureTheGamerKobold Magus sounds like a viable warlock. I'll look into him. Thanks! Although I read that some of his spells and abilities are broken at the moment. Heard the same about sorcs though too.