Build tips for a fighter?

[Bearded Geek]

So.

I am buying this game tomorrow morning. I have never played Pathfinder, but IF I am correct it is basically a fork of the DnD 3.5 rules? At least pretty close?
Anyway, I tend to prefer to play physical melee characters in most RPGs (Fighters, Street Samurais, whathaveyou). I tend to default to Sword and Board or 2-handed weapons.

I don't want a detailed plan, just some generic advice:
I want heavy armor. I want to hit things with pointy things.

[Northern]

I dont think you need much info here. You can literally create Fighter with 2h weapon subclass and play. Fighters are simple to play and most of their power based on passive skills (feats).

Only problem fighters has is lack of outside-combat skills so you may pick someone like Paladin who has close to fighter gameplay but has high charisma and better as party leader because of this.

[Bearded Geek]

Originally posted by Northern:

I dont think you need much info here. You can literally create Fighter with 2h weapon subclass and play. Fighters are simple to play and most of their power based on passive skills (feats).

Only problem fighters has is lack of outside-combat skills so you may pick someone like Paladin who has close to fighter gameplay but has high charisma and better as party leader because of this.

Never liked Paladins. Thanks tho :)

There are two sub-classes I consider: Basic Fighter (utilizing sword and board) and the Two-handed one. The Tower Shield specialist seems to sacrifice too much of damage dealing for my liking.

However I remember in 3.5 multiclassing was a thing and Fighter was a good base for a lot of builds. I remember a Fighter / Barbarian combo being a beast, for example. So was Fighter / Bard, but I want to stay on the fighter side of things.

Is the prestige classes worth it?

[TaKo]

Originally posted by Captain Snailbeard:

The Tower Shield specialist seems to sacrifice too much of damage dealing for my liking.

it doesnt tho? TSS is no DPS set up but they are still good fighters, unless you start to stack things like combat expertise and defensive fighting(-8 to hit) which u can turn on and off at any time

[aramintai]

Sneak attack is very strong in this game, so every melee character preferably should dip some into rogue.
To have a really good time as a melee warrior I'd recommend using something like this build:
Aldori Defender 15/Rogue 4/Monk 1

Attributes should mainly be focused on DEX. INT is for more skill points and prerequisite for some feats, CHA is for roleplaying mostly (be a persuasive leader), these can be dumped some if you wanna min-max.:
STR 10
DEX 18 (16+2 from race bonus)
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 14

As for feats, the trick is to either start with Lawful alignment or get to it through game choices to get 1 level of Monk (Traditional is best) at some early point and get these feats asap:
-Weapon Focus (Dueling Sword)
-Weapon Finesse (free by going Rogue)
-Finesse Training (Dueling Sword) (free by going Rogue, it's an equivalent of Slashing Grace, so no need to take it)
-Aldori Dueling Mastery
-Improved Unarmed Strike (free by going Monk, prerequisite for Crane Style)
-Crane Style (this should always be on along with Fighting Defensively, don't forget to have at least 3 points in Mobility for further bonus)
-Crane Wing
-Crane Riposte

Other feats of note worth taking early:
-Accomplished Sneak Attacker
-Dodge
-Outflank

Optional but useful:
-Combat Reflexes
-Combat Expertise
-Skill Focus (Persuasion) (for main only)
-Blind Fight (useful for late game)

So basically, you start with Aldori Defender, then get 4 levels of Rogue, then 1 level of Monk, then back to being Aldori Defender. You'll be a great tank with 45+ AC, have lots of skill points for passing skill checks and be able to pack a big punch. Great all rounder all in all. And looking cool with katana-ish swords to boot.

[Uncanny]

Yeah Pathfinder is basically a fork of 3.5!

Here's some random advice:
- You generally need 15+ DEX for dual-wielding or sword and board feats
- Two-handed weapons rely on good ol STR
- Fighters are missing some feats from the PnP, but the mod: Advanced Martial Arts adds them back
- Fighters tend to specialize in a single weapon (feats like Weapon Focus/Specialization) so go google Pathfinder's weapon table before you pick one since all weapons have different properties (like range, damage dice, critical hit range, critical hit multiplier, etc.)
- Crane Style -> Crane Wing -> Crane Riposte is a super strong feat line for martial characters with 1 hand open......except that it works in this game for any/no hands free (ex: sword & board, 2H, dual wielding, you name it) so it's altered/OP in this game
- Fighters benefit a lot from working in conjunction with other martial characters so your character will feel a lot stronger if you pair it with other melees companions and pick up Teamwork Feats (like Combat Reflexes + Outflank) on the group and do stuff like Combat Maneuvers, Intimidation moves, Riposting, etc.

[Bearded Geek]

Originally posted by aramintai:

Sneak attack is very strong in this game, so every melee character preferably should dip some into rogue.
To have a really good time as a melee warrior I'd recommend using something like this build:
Aldori Defender 15/Rogue 4/Monk 1

Attributes should mainly be focused on DEX. INT is for more skill points and prerequisite for some feats, CHA is for roleplaying mostly (be a persuasive leader), these can be dumped some if you wanna min-max.:
STR 10
DEX 18 (16+2 from race bonus)
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 10
CHA 14

As for feats, the trick is to either start with Lawful alignment or get to it through game choices to get 1 level of Monk (Traditional is best) at some early point and get these feats asap:
-Weapon Focus (Dueling Sword)
-Weapon Finesse (free by going Rogue)
-Finesse Training (Dueling Sword) (free by going Rogue, it's an equivalent of Slashing Grace, so no need to take it)
-Aldori Dueling Mastery
-Improved Unarmed Strike (free by going Monk, prerequisite for Crane Style)
-Crane Style (this should always be on along with Fighting Defensively, don't forget to have at least 3 points in Mobility for further bonus)
-Crane Wing
-Crane Riposte

Other feats of note worth taking early:
-Accomplished Sneak Attacker
-Dodge
-Outflank

Optional but useful:
-Combat Reflexes
-Combat Expertise
-Skill Focus (Persuasion) (for main only)
-Blind Fight (useful for late game)

So basically, you start with Aldori Defender, then get 4 levels of Rogue, then 1 level of Monk, then back to being Aldori Defender. You'll be a great tank with 45+ AC, have lots of skill points for passing skill checks and be able to pack a big punch. Great all rounder all in all. And looking cool with katana-ish swords to boot.

Thank you, this looks awesome. Just not for me, at least not for this playthru. I want plate mail.
Basically it boils down to if I can survive on Challenging difficulty without a shield user, because of what I have seen there is NO WAY I go without Amiri. If I CAN, I will also go 2-hander. Otherwise Sword and board.

[Bearded Geek]

Originally posted by Yajirobe:

Yeah Pathfinder is basically a fork of 3.5!

Here's some random advice:
- You generally need 15+ DEX for dual-wielding or sword and board feats
- Two-handed weapons rely on good ol STR
- Fighters are missing some feats from the PnP, but the mod: Advanced Martial Arts adds them back
- Fighters tend to specialize in a single weapon (feats like Weapon Focus/Specialization) so go google Pathfinder's weapon table before you pick one since all weapons have different properties (like range, damage dice, critical hit range, critical hit multiplier, etc.)
- Crane Style -> Crane Wing -> Crane Riposte is a super strong feat line for martial characters with 1 hand open......except that it works in this game for any/no hands free (ex: sword & board, 2H, dual wielding, you name it) so it's altered/OP in this game
- Fighters benefit a lot from working in conjunction with other martial characters so your character will feel a lot stronger if you pair it with other melees companions and pick up Teamwork Feats (like Combat Reflexes + Outflank) on the group and do stuff like Combat Maneuvers, Intimidation moves, Riposting, etc.

Thank you.

[I gurgle for Nurgle]

Pathfinder is 3.5, but has some really neat archetypes. If you want to create offtank with some damage potential, you can go for magus/sword saint. This archetype converts Int bonus to AC, can enchant melee weapon for more AB, damage or crit and can use spells aswell.
1 lvl in Alchemist/Vivisectionist grants you sneak attack, mutagen to increase one of your ability scores and, if you have at least 11 int, ability to cast spell (shield, enlarge person), which is really good for tough battles. A really good option for any multiclass fighter.
Also, I strongly recommend you to watch Nerd Commando's guides on youtube, he has a lot of interesting builds.

[aramintai]

Originally posted by Captain Snailbeard:

Thank you, this looks awesome. Just not for me, at least not for this playthru. I want plate mail.
Basically it boils down to if I can survive on Challenging difficulty without a shield user, because of what I have seen there is NO WAY I go without Amiri. If I CAN, I will also go 2-hander. Otherwise Sword and board.

This build has higher AC than heavy armor+shield wearing builds. Just wear light armor (or no armor late game). It combines high DEX bonus to AC + Fighting Defensively feat that this build can utilise almost without penalties. Also with feats listed your damage is coming from DEX, not STR - so it it's gonna do lots of it.
I think monk has even higher AC and it also has more will for handy saves late game. Also an option for challenging mode.

[aramintai]

Originally posted by Alm:

Pathfinder is 3.5, but has some really neat archetypes. If you want to create offtank with some damage potential, you can go for magus/sword saint. This archetype converts Int bonus to AC, can enchant melee weapon for more AB, damage or crit and can use spells aswell.
1 lvl in Alchemist/Vivisectionist grants you sneak attack, mutagen to increase one of your ability scores and, if you have at least 11 int, ability to cast spell (shield, enlarge person), which is really good for tough battles. A really good option for any multiclass fighter.
Also, I strongly recommend you to watch Nerd Commando's guides on youtube, he has a lot of interesting builds.

Magus/Sword Saint is too much micromanaging for same result as good old warrior classes. I'd debate the usefulness of Vivi if you play with full party, better get some levels of rogue for better sneak attacks, good free feats and tons of skill points (succeeding in tough DC dialogues is important too).
Nerd's videos are just a guideline, they aren't perfect and some of them are outdated. Also it feels like he's theorising based on what was good in PnP version of Pathfinder not the game version, game version have some alterations.

[I gurgle for Nurgle]

Originally posted by aramintai:

Magus/Sword Saint is too much micromanaging for same result as good old warrior classes. I'd debate the usefulness of Vivi if you play with full party, better get some levels of rogue for better sneak attacks, good free feats and tons of skill points (succeeding in tough DC dialogues is important too).
Nerd's videos are just a guideline, they aren't perfect and some of them are outdated. Also it feels like he's theorising based on what was good in PnP version of Pathfinder not the game version, game version have some alterations.

Sure. Too much micro, but you recommend fully defensive crane style warrior with 3 toggable abilities.
You tell me Aldori defender with 5 lvls in rogue is capable of doing more, than sword saint? Well, lets compare. I lvled up 2 side characters to lvl 14, that's mid/end game state. They do get less ability points than a main character, but it doesn't matter that much.
This is my aldori defender:
https://i.gyazo.com/248673b0034e03f04b06e08019e9aa4c.png
I gave him fullplate because even fancy methral medium armor still gets him less AC than fullplate armor of the same quality. On top of his 23 AC he gets +3 vs melee attack for aasimar wings, +4 AC for fighting defensively with crane style activated, +2 AC for combat expertise, +2 AC for aldori's defensive parry, -3 att from defensive stance and combat expertise.
In the end he has: 29 AC (+3 against melee, +2 after he performs full attack (not moving), max 34 AC), +16 attack, 10-17 damage +3d6 sneak attack, 19-20x2 crits. Sounds nice.

That is my aasimar dex defensive sword saint: https://i.gyazo.com/3285a272785002aa3d2b36c981cca49c.jpg
1fgh/1monk/9magus/3duelist. 26 AC with chainmail shirt + 3vs melee, she can cast shield for 14 min 6 times a day for another 4 AC, she also has all crane perks, so fighting defensively gives her another 4 AC and -1 att. Oh, I nearly forgot, she has 9 levels in magus, so she can potentially get another 4 AC from int modifier if she gets +int headband and/or int buffs. Not to mention simple fact that she'll continue to get AC points for every lvl in duelist class.
In the end she has: 30 AC (+4 defensive stance = 34 AC + 4AC from shield spell, + up to 5 AC from int items/buffs/pots), +15 attack, 8-14 damage, 18-20x3 criticals, ability to enchant weapon for 1d6 elemental damage, maximise damage, add +1 to crit multiplier, add keen enchantment (increase crit range), ability to crit with spells, ability prebuff herself. She also receive bonuses to her initiative to avoid flat-footed status and probably something else that I forgot.

[Eonwe]

You got plenty of really good advice, i'll just add a quick comment because my last playthrough was with a 2h fighter.
Plate armor or not, if you're not taking a buttload of defensive feats and dip into other classes for more AC, you're going to be EXTREMLY fragile as a 2h warrior, especially on challenging. So forget tanking with that character.
You will however do crazy damages, "like kill a black dragon in less than a full round" damages.

[aramintai]

Originally posted by Alm:

Originally posted by aramintai:

Magus/Sword Saint is too much micromanaging for same result as good old warrior classes. I'd debate the usefulness of Vivi if you play with full party, better get some levels of rogue for better sneak attacks, good free feats and tons of skill points (succeeding in tough DC dialogues is important too).
Nerd's videos are just a guideline, they aren't perfect and some of them are outdated. Also it feels like he's theorising based on what was good in PnP version of Pathfinder not the game version, game version have some alterations.

Sure. Too much micro, but you recommend fully defensive crane style warrior with 3 toggable abilities.
You tell me Aldori defender with 5 lvls in rogue is capable of doing more, than sword saint? Well, lets compare. I lvled up 2 side characters to lvl 14, that's mid/end game state. They do get less ability points than a main character, but it doesn't matter that much.
This is my aldori defender:
https://i.gyazo.com/248673b0034e03f04b06e08019e9aa4c.png
I gave him fullplate because even fancy methral medium armor still gets him less AC than fullplate armor of the same quality. On top of his 23 AC he gets +3 vs melee attack for aasimar wings, +4 AC for fighting defensively with crane style activated, +2 AC for combat expertise, +2 AC for aldori's defensive parry, -3 att from defensive stance and combat expertise.
In the end he has: 29 AC (+3 against melee, +2 after he performs full attack (not moving), max 34 AC), +16 attack, 10-17 damage +3d6 sneak attack, 19-20x2 crits. Sounds nice.

That is my aasimar dex defensive sword saint: https://i.gyazo.com/3285a272785002aa3d2b36c981cca49c.jpg
1fgh/1monk/9magus/3duelist. 26 AC with chainmail shirt + 3vs melee, she can cast shield for 14 min 6 times a day for another 4 AC, she also has all crane perks, so fighting defensively gives her another 4 AC and -1 att. Oh, I nearly forgot, she has 9 levels in magus, so she can potentially get another 4 AC from int modifier if she gets +int headband and/or int buffs. Not to mention simple fact that she'll continue to get AC points for every lvl in duelist class.
In the end she has: 30 AC (+4 defensive stance = 34 AC + 4AC from shield spell, + up to 5 AC from int items/buffs/pots), +15 attack, 8-14 damage, 18-20x3 criticals, ability to enchant weapon for 1d6 elemental damage, maximise damage, add +1 to crit multiplier, add keen enchantment (increase crit range), ability to crit with spells, ability prebuff herself. She also receive bonuses to her initiative to avoid flat-footed status and probably something else that I forgot.

Aldori defender is a DEX focused build. You don't slap medium or heavy armor on this build - it will give less AC than light (or no armor later). If you're doing that you're playing it wrong. But you can't make a full gas DEX based magus class without gimping it. Also, mixing caster class (Magus) with non-caster class (Duelist) is never a good idea here - no high level spells, not as good as full melee non-caster.

My aldori defender build late game without armor has around 60 AC (with fighting defenisvely and without any outside spell/potion buffs) easy and very rarely gets hit. It also hits like a truck due to fighter focused feats, damage also coming from DEX and powerful sneak attacks coupled with feats that give frequent attacks of opportunity (like Outflank). Not to mention there are tons of dueling swords in the game and they are awesome - you can also make some of them crit on 15-20, which is often. It also doesn't require much micromanagement, very easy to play, unlike magus. I've tried sword saint once, but by the time it gets buffed to the same state as said aldori build the battle is usually already over. It does get better in late game where enemies are tough and high level spells do great damage, but for the larger part of the game non-casters rule in this game. And to keep them at that level you just gotta take Blind Fight feat in the late game to give zero efs to those Wild Hunt enemies. Have such build as a main and another tank like Valerie (she too can be built into an awesome, never dying build) and steamroll through the game with any companions tagging along.

Too bad this game doesn't have trigger spells like in AD&D games, would have made casters way more fast and nasty.

[aramintai]

Originally posted by Eonwe:

You got plenty of really good advice, i'll just add a quick comment because my last playthrough was with a 2h fighter.
Plate armor or not, if you're not taking a buttload of defensive feats and dip into other classes for more AC, you're going to be EXTREMLY fragile as a 2h warrior, especially on challenging. So forget tanking with that character.
You will however do crazy damages, "like kill a black dragon in less than a full round" damages.

That's true, especially on harder difficulties. The way around this is to give them a weapon with big reach so that they won't be at the front line. I usually play Amiri like that - I give her Fauchard (there are enough good ones in the game, don't believe people saying there aren't any), a few levels as a two-handed fighter until she gets Overhand Chop (gotta couple it with Cleave), 1-2 levels of rogue for sneak attacks and the rest as a barbarian. She's good at swinging that fauchard around and chopping trash mobs from ot the back.

[Madscientist]

As somebody has written before:
You must chose from the start if you want to be a damage dealer or a tank. Tanks do not do much damage and enemies will always hit you unless you stack defenses.

Usually dex based tanks are better than those in armor and shield. You can stack bonusses from several classes that require light or no armor (monk, sword saint, duellist) and you have a higher AC against touch attacks. All tanks need uncanny dodge or they can lose most of their ac because of a bad initiative roll.

I have tried to create a good tank: https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/7/1842440600598713947/
You can ignore endurence (unlike PnP it is not needed for stalwart defender), so you can have combat expertise or apprentice sneak attack earlier.

I have also created the dragon tank in the guide section and I play it right now. He has very high AC and saves, but his damage is pathetic. To win a fight you need to remove enemy HP, so its nice when your tank does some damage too and rouge helps there a lot.