Base Magus vs Archetypes

[Midnight]

I can't decide on whether to play base magus or eldritch scion. Sword saint is out since I want to go for a strength build so the choice is betweeen CHA and INT magus,

It would seem that eldritch scion is pretty much straight up better version in this game. You don't need that many spells on magus anyway so the limitation is not so much of a problem, on the other hand both version get the same amount of casts per day.

So what you get from going eldritch scion is bloodline abilities and extra feats. Spells are not as much of an advantage since INT magus can learn them as well and learn some of the more common ones from scrolls. You also get really strong persuation but few skillpoints.

All ES loses is casting using his arcane pool.

So all base magus has going for him is their spell versatility (not that great on hybrid caster) and their skillpoints (but weak persuation).

I would consider building INT magus towards combat maneuvers though. But I have no idea how viable those really are and would hate to find out mid game that I can't land a single trip. You could help this by using true strike... but does true strike work on combat maneuver roll in this game? I have no idea.

Can anyone weigh in on this?

[pete3great]

I don't know if this answers all of your questions, but here's a thread from yesterday on the Magus. Personally, I'm pro-sword saint or eldritch archer.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/3335371283868026871/

[UR|Dialetheia]

Eldritch Scion loses the ability to use metamagic feats with spell combat and spell strike.

[Midnight]

Originally posted by UR|Dialetheia:

Eldritch Scion loses the ability to use metamagic feats with spell combat and spell strike.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. That said empowered is not that great and extended can be easily cast outside or just before combat os that loss doesn't hurt as much.

Also, does anyone know if spells like dragon form or transformation are available to pick for INT magus or are they specific only to bloodlines?

[UR|Dialetheia]

Originally posted by Midnight:

Originally posted by UR|Dialetheia:

Eldritch Scion loses the ability to use metamagic feats with spell combat and spell strike.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. That said empowered is not that great and extended can be easily cast outside or just before combat os that loss doesn't hurt as much.

Also, does anyone know if spells like dragon form or transformation are available to pick for INT magus or are they specific only to bloodlines?

For Magus, metamagic is not as much about empowering and extending, there are rods and other magic items and team-mates that can cover that. It's about Heightens to fill as much of your slots with Shocking Grasps and Quickens, to get yourself not one, but two casts+melee attacks in one round.

Transformation is on default Magus spell list. Dragonkind I isn't, far as i can tell.
Note, however, that as an Eldritch Scion, you won't get all of the Bloodline spells, because you're limited to 6th circle casting.

[Midnight]

Originally posted by UR|Dialetheia:

Originally posted by Midnight:

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. That said empowered is not that great and extended can be easily cast outside or just before combat os that loss doesn't hurt as much.

Also, does anyone know if spells like dragon form or transformation are available to pick for INT magus or are they specific only to bloodlines?

For Magus, metamagic is not as much about empowering and extending, there are rods and other magic items and team-mates that can cover that. It's about Heightens to fill as much of your slots with Shocking Grasps and Quickens, to get yourself not one, but two casts+melee attacks in one round.

Transformation is on default Magus spell list. Dragonkind I isn't, far as i can tell.
Note, however, that as an Eldritch Scion, you won't get all of the Bloodline spells, because you're limited to 6th circle casting.

It's a shame intensify spell is not in the game. What effect does heighten have on spell damage die?

Shocking grasp maxes out at 5d6 I think so upping it by 1 level makes it max out at 6d6 damage?

[UR|Dialetheia]

Originally posted by Midnight:

Originally posted by UR|Dialetheia:

For Magus, metamagic is not as much about empowering and extending, there are rods and other magic items and team-mates that can cover that. It's about Heightens to fill as much of your slots with Shocking Grasps and Quickens, to get yourself not one, but two casts+melee attacks in one round.

Transformation is on default Magus spell list. Dragonkind I isn't, far as i can tell.
Note, however, that as an Eldritch Scion, you won't get all of the Bloodline spells, because you're limited to 6th circle casting.

It's a shame intensify spell is not in the game. What effect does heighten have on spell damage die?

Shocking grasp maxes out at 5d6 I think so upping it by 1 level makes it max out at 6d6 damage?

It doesn't. It just allows you to put it into slots for spell levels which have no good touch spells.

[Kel'Ithra]

Meh wish I had known that. Ontop of their dragonkin abilities unusable due to being treated as spells instead of class abilities, for the Eldritch Scion about the metamagic feats....