Paladin build - suggestions?

[prince.balthias]

So, being "forced" to restart I just wanna try out the Paladin. I like the idea of the "always good guy" (last game I was the total opposite) and the Paladin class in general always interested me.

My idea was to build a bulky frontliners that can dish out a good amount of damage too.
I went Aasimar (angel-blood kin) for the bonus STR/CHA.

My stats are:

STR 18
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 7
WIS 9
CHA 16

I picked up Toughness as first feat and Longsowrd deity domain (forgot the name..). Planning to pick power attack as next and TWF+Shield Bash. Or, alternatively, just use a 1h without a shield to add 1.5x str to the damage.

Could this be viable for a pure paladin? Or would be better with some fighter levels? (or just delete and make a pure fighter and be done with it? .p)

Thanks :)

[Midnight]

Originally posted by prince.balthias:

After some theory crafts, I came up with this build:

18
14
12
13
10
14

lv 1 feat: Dodge, improved unarmed strike ('cause I'm planning to make him a tank/off tank with Crane Style, to have the penalty with fighting Defensively of -2 instead of -4.)

so, at lv 3 I'm gonna take Crane Style and at 5 Combat Expertise (that's why INT 13). From thant point on, I'm gonna take only pally feats (and maybe Power Attack/Combat Mobility).

No weapon focus, 'cause I'm probably switch between 2h /1h+shield/ 1h only based on what I'll find.

Not sure about multi class, but I think I'm gonna keep it pure paladin.

Instead of trying to twist paladin into INT why not pump CHA some more and go into debuffing enemies with intimidate line of feats? Power attack (which you want anyway) and cornugon smash are pretty much free debuff on anything you're attacking with high CHA and persuation. You'd also get more saves and such out of it.

Though you would have to commit to one weapon focus to get AoE debuffs with dazzling display.

Also, If you want to be always good don't play Paladin cause what most people view as "always good" or "good guy" usually ends up being neutral or chaotic good in these games. Aligment locked classes are pain in the ass in general.

I'd roll paladin as your first custom companion that way you don't have to worry about their aligment at all. RP that it's your baron's bodyguard or something.

[Azunai]

i'd go all out on strength and charisma. those 2 are the most important attributes. so the most suitable race from a min max POV is angelkin aasimar (+2str & +2cha). human can't compete.

dex can be 10. you don't need dex feats to be a decent fighter. TWF is for damage dealers. weapon & shield TWF is something you try once for the novelty, then never again because it's garbage. costs way too many feats and stats to turn the shield into a crappy offhand weapon.

imo power attack and autocleave on kill are pretty much the only useful skills for a melee. you can do fine without cleave, but it's well worth the 2 feats (base cleave skill is kinda bad, but required). outflank too if it's not the only melee character. everything else is just fluff, basically.

consider picking up some persuasion and intimitation stuff since that synergizes very nicely with your primary stats. i picked dazzling display for my pally and it's a very realiable way to lower the saves and AB of basically every hostile on the battlefield. like a bane or prayer spell or similar, but without charges/limited uses.

[prince.balthias]

Well, 18STR/14Cha I think it's pretty decent even without being aasimar. And yes, I can always take even Intimidating Prowess/Cornugon Smash, sure. I'm only level 2 lol.

The only thing that worries me is the alignment shift...gonna be very careful or goodbye pally and welcome mediocre fighter :S

[Edstyles]

too much dex on a paladin max 12 but id keep dex at 10
If u want more ac there are a few options for that in feats.

In term of weapons. Not sure I mean his heals are never going to be as good as a cleric. i see the last class ability is very strong for healing, but you cant wait that long for good heals.
As meele you probably wont be as good as a fighter either.
The differences may not be big, but there is no point in trying to be good at both meele and healing, so you would ahve to focus on 1.

[MrBonkers]

sword and board paladin is terrible,twf as well - too few feats to reliably fill the role..
go for 2h paladin (all you need is power attack and cleave chain) or go archer paladin (reliable dmg) but avoid the divine hunter archetype since granting some feats to nearby ranged chars is garbage compared to shared smite evil
archer paladin almost has to be human if you ignore divine hunter since you lack precise shot on lvl 1
and dump wisdom all the way to 7 and pump charisma...your +3/4 from divine grace easily outclass the -2 on will saves from low wisdom

[Alias]

Originally posted by prince.balthias:

Well, ok for a good tank but with 18 STR i should be able to do at least decent damage, don't i?

So, btw, TWF and shield bash are the next good feats to take, right?

Horrible advice in this thread so far.

Go for high Strength and Charisma, with Strength > Charisma. Constitution and Wisdom aren't important, Charisma covers the Saves side, Lay on Hands the hit point side (and generally speaking hit points are poor substitute for good tanking abilities like AC, displacement, mirror image, etc).

Dexterity must be 13, otherwise you lock yourself out of Dodge, plus full plates do allow 1 Dex bonus to AC.

Int can be 13 if you go Combat Expertise, otherwise it's a dump stat too. Skillwise you need Use Magic Device and Persuasion if the main character.


Instead of trying to create a pathetic shield&board paladin, create a two-handed Paladin making the most of your Strength, Power Attack, and Bless Weapon. Use the spell Shield from scrolls/wands, multiclass Scaled Fist for Crane Style and Evasion (which works with heavy armor atm), get Dodge, Armor Specialization:heavy, Outflank. You'll have a character that's both high damage, and high AC/saves. Don't forget Smite Evil is even more deflection AC and ignores damage reduction on the smited enemy.

You can take Intimidating Prowess as a bonus feat from Scaled Fist 2 and combine with Cornugon Smash for superhigh DC. Unfortunately, currently Thug is bugged and doesn't do its thing with Cornugon Smash, otherwise a multiclass in Thug+Accustomed Sneak Attacker would have been awesome.

Two-Handed Fighter is OK multiclass if you are in urgent need for feats (mostly for Challanging+ specialized builds). AC-related feats are fine for more tank-oriented characters, while Cleave-Cleaving Finish will up damage output. My personal experience with the Cleave line is that it's great early v kobolds/mites, but later in the game against large/huge monsters it isn't as easy to trigger cleaving finish, while Cleave loses imporatance with iterative attacks from BAB.