Flurry of Blows and Two Weapon Fighting?

[nshawmc]

If i am a rogue/inquisitor that goes 1 level of monk, then do i not need two weapon fighting at all?
Flurry of blows will cause a second attack in the 6 second round, correct?

Can i just put on one dagger instead of two to get same effect without the penalty?

Will TWF give me a third attack? Any reason to take two weapon fighting at all if you dip into monk?

[nshawmc]

I did some testing since no response. Here is what i figured out:

First, Flurry of Blows does not work if you wear any armor.

TWF feat will only reduce the penalties on your attacks. No effect on number of attacks. However, it has no effect unless you equip two weapons and attack twice each round.

Two weapons will be two attacks at penalty (-4,-8) or (-2,-2 with TWF)

Flurry of Blows will give you a second attack,
OR a third attack at -4 or -2 with TWF.

So if you go MONK 1 and use flurry of blows (and no armor) then:
with TWF and two weapons, you are having three attacks all at -2.
without TWF and with one weapon, you have two attacks with no penalty.

[nshawmc]

Also bonus during my testing:
I think mobility affects your range you can charge.
And if you cast expeditious retreat on yourself increasing your movement you will also be able to charge about twice as far. This is important if you want to get surprise attacks (a bonus round of attacks).

[Malacar]

Thank you so much for this info!

I have a question though - does Flurry of Blows only work with certain weapons? The in-game description says it works with "monk weapons" but it's unclear what these are. In particular, does it work with Kukri? I.e. will I do 3 attacks with Flurry of Blows + Two Weapon Fighting if I use a Kukri in each hand?

[Morgian]

Kukris are out.
Monk weapons are: brass knuckles, cestus, club, crossbow, dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shortspear, short sword, shuriken, suangham, sling, spear, and temple sword.

[KORJ]

"monk weapons" it means, all close combat weapons that a monk class can own.

[Sotanaht]

Flurry grants you +1 attacks with your main weapon, provided you are not wearing any armor and using a monk weapon (including unarmed. At monk level 11, this increases to +2 attacks. Note that Sensei monks don't get flurry of blows at all.

When making a flurry of blows, you do not gain any additional attacks from a weapon in the off hand. Technically you still can wield 2 weapons with flurry, but you only get main hand+flurry bonus, I'm not sure if the off hand even attacks AT ALL , if it does it replaces one of those attacks.

Compared to 2 weapon fighting, you only need one weapon, and all addiotional attacks are made without penalty to Attack bonus. However, you do not get Improved or Greater 2 weapon fighting. At maximum level a Monk has 6 attacks total (+20,+20,+20,+15,+10,+5 BAB). With all 2WF feats a character with full BAB gets 7 attacks (+18, +18offhand, +13, +13offhand, +8,+8offhand,+3)

The two are roughly equivalent with full levels, BUT if you don't get Monk 11 you are losing 2 attacks for Flurry instead of just 1, which isn't a good trade.

[Batailleuse]

Let's say flurry is good for class that can use monk weapons but don't/can't invest in greater twf or those that use shifts (you get flurry when shifted)

Also 1lvl monk. Usually gives you wis/cha mod to AC and flurry when wearing no armor.

Making it an easy upgrade for several casters and the ecclesitheurge. Giving you a load of AC for free if you go pure caster route.

Also investing a bit to get the style. Upgrade can be very effective.

Monk get 4 styles applied to all flurry attacks.

2 in particular are useful for pure dps

One gives you a double roll of damage from main hand (including all +elem damage and +str/dex to the roll) before attack (so a free double damage on first strike that is full bab)

Second one enable to ignore all DR of target

The other two are more situational

One enable a free trip on the flurry

The other gives you a +4AC against the target hit.

I think it's at 4 or 5th level

At lvl11 you get 2 flurry and at 13 you get 2 of the previous skill active at any time during flurry

The 2 offensive one being extremely powerful together with the equivalent of 4 attacks in 2 that ignore DR

[Gorgeous_Joe]

Bashing humanoids half way across the map is fun when you have 2HW style fighting and shield mastery. Only possibly more fun is auto exploding low level creatures with greater cleave......ah these game mechanics at higher levels

[Malacar]

Originally posted by Sotanaht:

I'm not sure if the off hand even attacks AT ALL , if it does it replaces one of those attacks.

The OP said that according to their testing a character makes 3 attacks per round with Flurry of Blows when equipped with an offhand weapon, thus Flurry of Blows doesn't replace one of the offhand attacks. Or at least it's how it's implemented in this game.

I want to make a custom companion – a Knife Master rogue with just one level of Monk for extra armor and Flurry of Blows. Hence I need to know if Flurry of Blows will be really worth using, and which weapons it will work with.

UPDATE: So I went ahead and made a toon with Flurry of Blows and a Kukri in each hand. It does work – I do 3 attacks per round, each of them can be a sneak attack. Probably a bug, but whatever.

[Batailleuse]

Originally posted by Malacar:

Originally posted by Sotanaht:

I'm not sure if the off hand even attacks AT ALL , if it does it replaces one of those attacks.

The OP said that according to their testing a character makes 3 attacks per round with Flurry of Blows when equipped with an offhand weapon, thus Flurry of Blows doesn't replace one of the offhand attacks. Or at least it's how it's implemented in this game.

I want to make a custom companion – a Knife Master rogue with just one level of Monk for extra armor and Flurry of Blows. Hence I need to know if Flurry of Blows will be really worth using, and which weapons it will work with.

Flurry only adds +1 free attack per. Round (+2 at 11)

It never ever gives +1 per weapons

Imagine if it did when you morph as a dragon you would get 10 attacks per round...lol


Wearher you are twf/2h/unarmed/shifted of only gives 1 or 2 attacks.

Plus the potential fighting style at lvl5

To be clear it's added only to the flurry attacks so 1 or 2.

But it can give either :

-2 full roll of your main hand to the attack kso basically like attacking twice (include weapon mods and str/dex mod)
-Full DR and hardness ignore
-4AC against the target
-a free trip attempt (does not give AoO)

Ki power also potentially gives +1 free attack the round its used. (not sure if treated as a flurry)

That being said at 13 you also get 2 of those above active at the same time on 2 flurry that you get lvl11.

Hence you maximise monk power at 13

Id you were you TWF you could get 6+2 (+3 with monk Ki) attack per round

[Batailleuse]

Originally posted by FRBatailleuse:

Originally posted by Malacar:

The OP said that according to their testing a character makes 3 attacks per round with Flurry of Blows when equipped with an offhand weapon, thus Flurry of Blows doesn't replace one of the offhand attacks. Or at least it's how it's implemented in this game.

I want to make a custom companion – a Knife Master rogue with just one level of Monk for extra armor and Flurry of Blows. Hence I need to know if Flurry of Blows will be really worth using, and which weapons it will work with.

Flurry only adds +1 free attack per. Round (+2 at 11)

It never ever gives +1 per weapons

Imagine if it did when you morph as a dragon you would get 10 attacks per round...lol


Wearher you are twf/2h/unarmed/shifted of only gives 1 or 2 attacks.

Plus the potential fighting style at lvl5

To be clear it's added only to the flurry attacks so 1 or 2.

But it can give either :

-2 full roll of your main hand to the attack kso basically like attacking twice (include weapon mods and str/dex mod)
-Full DR and hardness ignore
-4AC against the target
-a free trip attempt (does not give AoO)

Ki power also potentially gives +1 free attack the round its used. (not sure if treated as a flurry)

That being said at 13 you also get 2 of those above active at the same time on 2 flurry that you get lvl11.

Hence you maximise monk power at 13

Id you were you TWF you could get 6+2 (+3 with monk Ki) attack per round

With the 2 flurry acting almost like 4 strike. (not sure if the sneak is also counted twice tho)

Could Try a 7 vivi + 13 monk to try out

Gets same sneak as rogue but with mutagen and some self buff.

[papiko]

So you can stack flurry of blows and twf in the game? In RAW u cannot do that because they don't stack with each other.

[Batailleuse]

Originally posted by 你走是个弟弟！:

So you can stack flurry of blows and twf in the game? In RAW u cannot do that because they don't stack with each other.

Not sure

Its a bit hard to evaluate if a flurry is going or not as it is a passive skill that just let you attack once instead of a toggle to see if it's working or not.

[Malacar]

Originally posted by FRBatailleuse:

Originally posted by 你走是个弟弟！:

So you can stack flurry of blows and twf in the game? In RAW u cannot do that because they don't stack with each other.

Not sure

Its a bit hard to evaluate if a flurry is going or not as it is a passive skill that just let you attack once instead of a toggle to see if it's working or not.

I confirm it works in the current version of the game, and it doesn't require "monk weapons".

[Biggie]

Originally posted by Morgian:

Kukris are out.
Monk weapons are: brass knuckles, cestus, club, crossbow, dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shortspear, short sword, shuriken, suangham, sling, spear, and temple sword.

All weapons work with Flurry of blows the only requirement is that you are unarmored.

You can wield a great sword and get the bonus attack from flurry of blows as long as you dont wear armor.
You can also wield a shield and 1h and get flurry of blows.

Hence my Valerie is lvl 5 tower shield fighter, monk and rogue, she get flurry of blows attacks using a tower shield, monk movement speed (not penalized with tower shield) and obviiously Im maxing her dex and charisma and stacking dexterity and + armor items. Works like a charm.

For the OP. Nice test for TWF I was wondering if worth taking monk and twf, it absolutely is.
So Monk 11 with greater two for 3 extra off hand attacks, then Rogue 3 minimum for the finesse. Keen Kukris with elemental damage you pick up very early, and maxing your dex ontop of this.

You can add in another class 5 levels apart from Monk 11, rogue 4 or just keep at it with rogue for Monk 11, Rogue 9.
Or, if you really plan on Kukris and there are a TON of insane kukris in the game, you might as well go Knife Master.

11 monk for the 2nd flurry of blows and all the movement speed. Some wisdom for willpower saves is better then sacred fist and you should sit at 9 attacks per round unbuffed. 2 of them with quite some minus but your dex should be in the 30+ so your to hit will be pretty damn massive.

You might just wanna go standard fighter 5 levels so you can take weapon specialization and you get 3 extra feats and the BAB you need to hit the 4th BAB attack.