Sword saint build for unfair

[Eclipse]

Hi,everyone!I don’t want to use premade builds because it kills all fun.So I tested a bit and now I am sure that melee classes need AC around 55/60 to survive random aggro switches and archers/wild hunt focus fire.To reach it I want to pick at least 1 lvl. in alchemist for mutagen and 1 lvl. in monk for wisdom mod.Is it a good idea to pick just 1 lvl. and not go further or in the long run it will harm dps. output?Though for unfair I think surviability is more preferable.

[haplok]

55-60 AC? Easy-peasy.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1858063345

Drop that Vivi level, btw. Perfect Reflexes at SS level 19 will offer more survivability then the Vivi level ever could due to never being flat-footed (= having greatly reduced AC). It's one of the best SS features. Also diluting and delaying class features is a bad idea.

[Eclipse]

引用自 haplok：

55-60 AC? Easy-peasy.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1858063345

Drop that Vivi level, btw. Perfect Reflexes at SS level 19 will offer more survivability then the Vivi level ever could due to never being flat-footed (= having greatly reduced AC). It's one of the best SS features. Also diluting and delaying class features is a bad idea.

Lvl. 19 is only for act 8.The hardest part is act 1-3.This is why I am not sure that pure SS is a good idea.

[Marcos_DS]

引用自 Eclipse：

Lvl. 19 is only for act 8.The hardest part is act 1-3.This is why I am not sure that pure SS is a good idea.

True, in the last act you can have so many good items and buffs that the build itself is (almost) irrelevant for AC.

I think Monk 1 is a good option to survive in the beginning. Crane Style for Defensive fighting without destroying your to-hit & Cha / Wis to AC really helps during those first few levels. Vivi 1 is -1 to hit, mitigated a bit by the mutagen but it has short duration. Adding 1d6SA (2D6 with accomplished SA feat) also helps in low levels when other damage boni are low. However, i would use the respec option later to remove Vivisectionist1.

I would consider removing Monk1 close to endgame as well. When you reach lvl 20, you get weapon mastery (crit multiplier +1) and your AC will still be good enough without wis/cha to AC by then.

[Eclipse]

Also in my warnhold dlc test run I found that you are always short on magus points as almost all good skills consume it.So either you have to save them for really hard fights or rest often which is kinda bad in this game.

[haplok]

With a full party I reach level 20 in Act V.
YMMV.

Yeah, I guess respeccing OUT of a class later is an option. Although not one I endorse. IMO a SS18/M1/V1 is a lot weaker then SS19/M1.

Also Eclipse you wrote about SS resources - Arcane Pool - being limited. Certainly true. But at least you can ration them. In case of a single Vivi level once you start the Mutagen, you have exactly 10 minutes of bonuses till the next rest. Outside these 10 minutes, your character is actually weaker (lower BAB). Some people claim 10 minutes is enough. Well, certainly not for me (I kinda like 4 level Vivi dips, but that's another story).

[Pink Eye]

引用自 Marcos_DS：

引用自 Eclipse：

Lvl. 19 is only for act 8.The hardest part is act 1-3.This is why I am not sure that pure SS is a good idea.

True, in the last act you can have so many good items and buffs that the build itself is (almost) irrelevant for AC.

I think Monk 1 is a good option to survive in the beginning. Crane Style for Defensive fighting without destroying your to-hit & Cha / Wis to AC really helps during those first few levels. Vivi 1 is -1 to hit, mitigated a bit by the mutagen but it has short duration. Adding 1d6SA (2D6 with accomplished SA feat) also helps in low levels when other damage boni are low. However, i would use the respec option later to remove Vivisectionist1...

Vivi dip is by far the most over rated thing ever. You're giving up BAB progression, and trading class progression for a minor mutagen that lasts for 10 mins. On top of it all the sneak attack your getting from the the dip does chip damage.

Dwarner likes to say Stats are cheap, and I agree with him. The late games suffers from so much stat bloat it's stupid. Bokkens potions, +8 belts, +8 to mental stats, and lamashtu blessings. On top of all the buffs you should be applying.

No amount of min maxing will improve your play. If you don't know how to abuse certain mechanics or how to properly approach the game. If all you relied on was farting cloud to get through the game, you won't get far on unfair. Unfair requires a completely different mindset, and a different approach.

[Pink Eye]

引用自 haplok：

With a full party I reach level 20 in Act V.
YMMV.

Yeah, I guess respeccing OUT of a class later is an option. Although not one I endorse. IMO a SS18/M1/V1 is a lot weaker then SS19/M1.

Also Eclipse you wrote about SS resources - Arcane Pool - being limited. Certainly true. But at least you can ration them. In case of a single Vivi level once you start the Mutagen, you have exactly 10 minutes of bonuses till the next rest. Outside these 10 minutes, your character is actually weaker (lower BAB). Some people claim 10 minutes is enough. Well, certainly not for me (I kinda like 4 level Vivi dips, but that's another story).

3-4 Vivi dip is actually much more significant than just a single level dip.

[Marcos_DS]

引用自 Pink Eye：

Vivi dip is by far the most over rated thing ever. You're giving up BAB progression, and trading class progression for a minor mutagen that lasts for 10 mins. On top of it all the sneak attack your getting from the the dip does chip damage.

During chapter 1 on unfair, getting 2d6 SA on all attacks is actually really helpful, esp. if you start with a DEX/INT focused SS. The minor mutagen is just okish, but +2 to hit/+2 AC do help, even if its only on the most imortant fight(s) and you get -1 to hit otherwise. Starts to fall off quite fast like you said, which i would recommend to respec after Chapter 1. But the early chapters are the difficult ones, and in those its a valid pick.

No amount of min maxing will improve your play. If you don't know how to abuse certain mechanics or how to properly approach the game. If all you relied on was farting cloud to get through the game, you won't get far on unfair. Unfair requires a completely different mindset, and a different approach.

I have no problem with unfair. I do cheese a bit in early chapter 1 (using grease + animal companions to pull). Don't see how unfair needs completely new tactics. Either pets or summons to take the hits, tanks with displacement & mirror image if possible. And enough damage output to take them out fast (debuff enemies/buff to hit + haste).

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1680332790

[Eclipse]

Also my previous unfair run was on paladin,so I hadn’t much troubles with saving throws and status effects before Rovaug spawn and wild hunt (and had to switch because my party couldn’t resist mind control and paralysis,paladin was always fine).Won’t it be a problem for SS,seems like it hasn’t any protection from many status effects and worse saving throws?Of course I can create some min max priests/paladins for auras,but not sure will it be enough to compensate,on unfair some rolls are really tough and you need immunities.

[haplok]

Never experienced problems with my Sword Saint's saving throws (as opposed to my Vivisectionist, who sometimes suffered from Will effects).

[Eclipse]

引用自 haplok：

Never experienced problems with my Sword Saint's saving throws (as opposed to my Vivisectionist, who sometimes suffered from Will effects).

What gives SS an edge here?I can’t remember any active or passive saving throw buffs.

[Viconia DeVir]

引用自 Eclipse：

Also my previous unfair run was on paladin,so I hadn’t much troubles with saving throws and status effects before Rovaug spawn and wild hunt (and had to switch because my party couldn’t resist mind control and paralysis,paladin was always fine).Won’t it be a problem for SS,seems like it hasn’t any protection from many status effects and worse saving throws?Of course I can create some min max priests/paladins for auras,but not sure will it be enough to compensate,on unfair some rolls are really tough and you need immunities.

I checked your profile and you don't have the unfair achievement. Did you beat it offline or something?

[Eclipse]

引用自 Viconia DeVir：

引用自 Eclipse：

Also my previous unfair run was on paladin,so I hadn’t much troubles with saving throws and status effects before Rovaug spawn and wild hunt (and had to switch because my party couldn’t resist mind control and paralysis,paladin was always fine).Won’t it be a problem for SS,seems like it hasn’t any protection from many status effects and worse saving throws?Of course I can create some min max priests/paladins for auras,but not sure will it be enough to compensate,on unfair some rolls are really tough and you need immunities.

I checked your profile and you don't have the unfair achievement. Did you beat it offline or something?

I switched difficulty to normal to beat Rovaug spawn,because I seriously messed with party management. Rest of the game bar may be wild hunt was manageable. I finished chapters 1-6 on unfair.

[haplok]

引用自 Eclipse：

引用自 haplok：

Never experienced problems with my Sword Saint's saving throws (as opposed to my Vivisectionist, who sometimes suffered from Will effects).

What gives SS an edge here?I can’t remember any active or passive saving throw buffs.

High class Will progression coupled with strong Wis, also useful for monk AC.
I borked my respec at some point, I initially went with Traditional Monk dip, so that should be 2 Will more.
Fortitude is even stronger for some reason. It does get a good buff from Transformation.

Reflex is the weakest, but I've found it the least important saving throw, by far. And I've still usually passed it with moderate Dex. Fortunately no enemies seem to spam the likes of VineTrap, Icy Prison or Chains of Light. Although I guess Freedom would still cover those, so wouldn't be that much of a deal either way.

[Viconia DeVir]

引用自 Marcos_DS：

引用自 Pink Eye：

Vivi dip is by far the most over rated thing ever. You're giving up BAB progression, and trading class progression for a minor mutagen that lasts for 10 mins. On top of it all the sneak attack your getting from the the dip does chip damage.

During chapter 1 on unfair, getting 2d6 SA on all attacks is actually really helpful, esp. if you start with a DEX/INT focused SS. The minor mutagen is just okish, but +2 to hit/+2 AC do help, even if its only on the most imortant fight(s) and you get -1 to hit otherwise. Starts to fall off quite fast like you said, which i would recommend to respec after Chapter 1. But the early chapters are the difficult ones, and in those its a valid pick.

No amount of min maxing will improve your play. If you don't know how to abuse certain mechanics or how to properly approach the game. If all you relied on was farting cloud to get through the game, you won't get far on unfair. Unfair requires a completely different mindset, and a different approach.

I have no problem with unfair. I do cheese a bit in early chapter 1 (using grease + animal companions to pull). Don't see how unfair needs completely new tactics. Either pets or summons to take the hits, tanks with displacement & mirror image if possible. And enough damage output to take them out fast (debuff enemies/buff to hit + haste).

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1680332790

Oh wow, so Pink Eye doesn't know what he's talking about.