Last Azlanti on Challenging

[gunman]

Having finished the game on Last Azlanti / Normal mode, I have by now several failed attempts on Challenging.

The change in difficulty from Normal to Challenging in ironman is huge. The lack of Death's Door means no second chances, and in the Normal run, my MC (arcane trickster) failed several saving throws that lead to Death's Door.

Secondly, the small increase of all enemies' attributes doubles the difficulty of first chapter. When before the enemies hit your character to near death, but you still prevailed and won the fight, now it is death. And it happened a lot without you realizing.

Having a frontline MC looks quite impossible for difficulty levels above Normal. To survive just the first chapter you need a sheer amount of luck, a couple of bad rolls and it's game over. To survive the entire game looks like winning at the lottery.

Looks like it is already mandatory to use powegaming, min-max builds, to have the slightest chance.

Has anyone successfully finished a Challenging ironman run? What is your impressions?

[Psychotic_Frog]

You have a lot of courage to try Challenging Ironman haha.
I remember playing Challenging, getting to Sycamore and Tartuccio just getting first in the initiative order. Fireball centered on my MC, insta-death. Had to reload multiple times that encounter, seems so broken.
I agree it really looks like you need to min-max like mad, know everything in advance, powergame and have a decent dose of luck to have a chance.

[Starrok]

You, sir, have my respect!

I wonder if there's anyone over the course of these years who managed to complete an Unfair Last Azlanti or it's physically impossible...

[Higgy]

It is possible, it just takes a lot of time and a bit of luck. You have to do the specific builds to tank all the hits, by getting up to 60+ AC by the late game, and cheese with lots of summon spam. There are some mods like Call of the Wild which add some better classes/archetypes which make it a little easier too!

[gunman]

The death zone is in the first part of the game, probably the first couple chapters are where most of the ironman run ends.
By late game you have enough spells, HP and gear to survive physical attacks, this is the zone where random failed saving throws will kill you.

In theory I know it is possible, but I want to know from somebody who did it.

I start to think the most practical way is to keep your MC at the edge of the maps and not taking part in any battles, just serving as a pack mule.

The fact that there is no Death's Door is what makes the difference between Normal and Challenging be worlds apart. It's greater than the difference between Normal and Unfair without ironman.

[Ragnaman]

Are animal companions scaled for Unfair/Challenging ? Or Animal Companions become useless at higher difficulties ?

[Higgy]

Animal companions are always useful, because of their scaling :)

[Mork]

From my experience you need a MC that is extremely hard to kill and you still need to be ready to run for your life when you see some specific monsters while your party deal with them. I have done it with a base ranger and his pet but i know ''when'' it's time for my MC to run because that creature can cast prismatic spray for example.

I recommend you create a range DPS that focus on survivability. A base ranger, a divine hunter or a eldritch scoundrel are all great choices by themselves.

But if i was to do it again, i will probably try a Divine hunter 2 / Eldritch Scoundrel 7 / Scaled fist monk 1 / Eldritch Knight 10.

[InEffect]

Pets are nice meatbags. They are pretty much free summons that you don't have to cast. As to them being good... Well, they don't have mirror, so no, they won't be great on unfair. You can make them passable, but there is always a relatively high chance that after all the buffing they will get destroyed in a round or two, so I generally don't bother with it much past the prologue just to save time.

As to challenging ironman it will be a walk in a park with any unfair-viable team, except you'll want MC to be on the backline and with tons of defenses, so probably necro/conjuration sylvan with relatively early monk level.

[Immortal Reaver]

You can cheese whole Unfair with Last Azlanti run with Jaethal, since she cannot die as undead and gets always up after fight stops, that is one possible (also very anoyying and time consuming) way for everybody to do it on Unfair.
Similiary, every companion during Prolog is immortal in same way.
I did Last Azlanti mode on Challenging, I used 5 man party and I turned exp share off/on to keep my party 1 level higher than intended just to increase chances to not die.

[gunman]

Originally posted by Mork:

From my experience you need a MC that is extremely hard to kill and you still need to be ready to run for your life when you see some specific monsters while your party deal with them. I have done it with a base ranger and his pet but i know ''when'' it's time for my MC to run because that creature can cast prismatic spray for example.

I recommend you create a range DPS that focus on survivability. A base ranger, a divine hunter or a eldritch scoundrel are all great choices by themselves.

But if i was to do it again, i will probably try a Divine hunter 2 / Eldritch Scoundrel 7 / Scaled fist monk 1 / Eldritch Knight 10.

Eldritch Scoundrel sounds good. I don't want to go over the top and mix over three classes. I was also thinking of a Sorcerer with 2 levels or Paladin for saving throws, or a divine hunter with crossbow. I am afraid in the later case, it will be pretty useless late game against high level enemies.

[gunman]

I'm curious, is an Eldritch Scoundrel more resilient than an Arcane Trickster?

[Mork]

Originally posted by gunman:

I'm curious, is an Eldritch Scoundrel more resilient than an Arcane Trickster?

Yes slightly, but not by much.

[InEffect]

Nah, both are exactly the same since neither has the AC and just relies on not being targeted and just running mirror+greater invis for 25% to be hit and both have 2 hits on unfair. The playstyle is not too different either, except scoundrel has quite a lot more sustained damage, no AoE, and less nova longevity, but more nova damage.

[Frostfeather]

You can do Last Azlanti even on Unfair. You'll want to use turn based, at least until your group comes completely "online" partway through the game.

For the early game, use mostly or entirely ranged attacks and magic, staying away from melee enemies. Use Protection from Arrows for archer enemies. And take out/disable enemy casters immediately. A Flame Dancer can help against early game fire damage from casters/alchemists, too.

When resting in an area like Old Sycamore, leave the area to rest, as the encounters on the world map are much easier than the encounters in most areas.

And of course, having some mercs and/or respeccing companions into classes better suited for the early game on higher difficulty will make your life much easier. Classes like Arcane Bomber, Fighter (using a ranged weapon), anyone with Entangle, Grenadier, Undead Bloodline Sorc/Magus, and with Call of the Wild... Psychic, especially Magaambyan Telepath.

You can try to abuse Jeathal, but I don't think she's really worth it beyond maybe obtaining the early Phylactery of Negative Channeling because she probably won't synergize with your group very well unless she's respecced.