Wizard Start Stats

[PeexMad]

Are my wizard start stats ok?

STR:10
DEX:13
KON:13
INT:20: (+2Human)
WIS:12
CHA:10

Skills: All Knowleges, convince and use magical stuff.

[Edstyles]

Str gives you more carry weight for your team and for youself, as a wizard you wont be using armor tho so carry weight isnt a big deal.

[Guy]

You can carry 34 LBS and have no penalty with 10 STR

I am level 17 with 10 STR, My gear weights 33.2 ( 16 from weapons, 6 from belt )

With 7 STR you are starting to get encumbered at 24 LBS

[Guy]

Originally posted by whoop:

So iam going with 8/14/14/20/10/10 now. Iam playing on normal.

With 8 in STR or Charisma?

[=[NK]= Col. Jack O'Neil]

I use 8/16/10/20/10/10 human

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by whoop:

So iam going with 8/14/14/20/10/10 now. Iam playing on normal.

Bad spread.

Dump STR to 7, you dont need it at all (and there will be belts for boosts anyway).

Dump Wis and Cha to 7 as well. You will not be a good Persuader anyway due to lack of class/race bonuses and low Cha.

Dont take Human. You have no use for more skill points since Int is your prime stat, and a feat is nice but you already have enough in a Wizard build.

Take Elf for +2 Dex and Int, racial longbow and racial Knowledge Arcana.

Take Dex 20, Int 20, Con 13, rest 7.

Specialise in Evocation, dump Enchantment and Necromancy.

Take SF Evocation and Spell Spec Burning hands at lvl 1.

Always put ranks into Knowledge Arcana, Trickery and Mobility first.

Then take 1 level of Vivisectionist, Accomplished Sneak Attacker at level 3 and go for Arcane Trickster at level 5.

If I were you however, I'd make my main a Sorc with max Charisma and Persuasion. Which I did. You can have a wizard based AT as a companion.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

Dont take Human.

Take it. Human is the best one and baseline AT build will come online since lvl 1.

Burning hands & SS is a nice alternative at start, but will cost you some reloads here and there. Plus blackdragon's AT build will not come online until lvl 7, being mostly useless member of your group. For seven damned levels!

You don't want longbow (it's crap in hands of wiz/sor anyway). +2 Dex is mediocre, same as +2 Spell Pen (you can easily counter it by feat later).

But feat on level 1 allow you to get some power since level 2 even by autocasting cantrip.

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

Specialise in Evocation, dump Enchantment and Necromancy.

Bad advice. Late game have many items that will boost your Necromancy DC to incredible high values, making even specializing on it viable (but lackluster in early game).

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

Always put ranks into Knowledge Arcana, Trickery and Mobility first.

Perception is mandatory one for any class that have more then 2 skills per level up or want high Int (even if you have specialist in it - you will never know when he/she will decide to roll 1).

Also it isn't appealing idea to dump WIS to 7. It's possible that will screw you moderately later in game, when you will be attacked by some.... special monsters.

[Blackdragon]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

Dont take Human.

Take it. Human is the best one

No, it isn't. Its only good feature is its feat, and there are no feats that add +2 to a Stat AND +2 to a skill AND free martial proficiencies.

and baseline AT build will come online since lvl 1.

How the hell can an AT build "come online since lvl 1" when you need to be a minimum of 5th level to even enter AT (3 levels for Arcane spellcasting, 1 level for Sneak attack, 4 levels total for skill ranks, and 1 level for AT itself).

Burning hands & SS is a nice alternative at start

Alternative to what?

but will cost you some reloads here and there.

How would it cost reloads, when you've god 5 casts of 3d6 +1 cone spells + cantrips + longbow?

Plus blackdragon's AT build will not come online until lvl 7

?? Now it's level 7? Again, AT entry is at level 5 on a wizard chassis (6 if sorcerer).

being mostly useless member of your group. For seven damned levels!

Mostly useless? LOL, you sure don't know how to play a caster.

You don't want longbow (it's crap in hands of wiz/sor anyway).

At level 1 it's only 1 less AB than a Fighter. And it does more than twice the damage of a cantrip (1d8 vs. 1d3).

+2 Dex is mediocre

+2 Dex = +1 AC, +1 AB with ranged and ranged touch attacks, as well as +1 to Trickery, Mobility, and Stealth. No single feat can give you that. In fact, you need at least 2 feats to get that only in relation to one type of weapon (Weapon Focus), plus a feat for +3 to skills, so it's worth more than 3 feats.

same as +2 Spell Pen

How the hell is Dexterity related to Spell Penetration? What are you even talking about?

(you can easily counter it by feat later).

No, you can't, see above.

But feat on level 1 allow you to get some power since level 2 even by autocasting cantrip.

You already get 2 feats at level 1 as a Wizard. What would a third feat do that would make it worth more than +2 Dex, +2 skill, and martial proficiencies?

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

Specialise in Evocation, dump Enchantment and Necromancy.

Bad advice. Late game have many items that will boost your Necromancy DC to incredible high values, making even specializing on it viable (but lackluster in early game).

Necromancy in this game is bollocks. It does damage instead of insta-kills, and all early levels are filled with crappy debuffs. It requires both a failed save AND beating SR to work. A lot of enemies are immune to it (e.g. all Undead). It doesn't benefit from Elemental School focus, so -2 DC compared to Evocation. Its spells can't be Empowered or Maximised, nor do they benefit from Sorcerer's damage bonus due to not being dice-based. And of course Animate Dead / Create Undead are crap compared to their PnP versions.

There is no point speccing in Necro. If you want single-target damage, go Evocation. If you want AOE damage, go Evocation. If you want CC/Summons, go Conjuration. That's about it.

If suddenly at end game you find an OP Necromancy item, sure feel free to respec into Necro. Otherwise, Evocation is your School for damage.

Originally posted by Blackdragon:

Always put ranks into Knowledge Arcana, Trickery and Mobility first.

Perception is mandatory one for any class that have more then 2 skills per level up or want high Int (even if you have specialist in it - you will never know when he/she will decide to roll 1).

LOL you need those 3 skills to get into Arcane Trickster. If you take a different skill instead, you'll miss the entry point and will gimp your character.

Furthermore, Perception is only good if it's maxed, with Stat/Class/Race/Item bonuses piled on ranks. You're dumping WIS, so Perception is not going to be good anyway. Furthermore, the +Dex alchemical mutagen applies a further -2 to Wisdom.

For high Perception get an Aasimar Inquisitor in your group (for the Race, Class and Inquisitor bonuses), take the Persuasive feat (which gives +4 Perception at rank 10) and a Wisdom circlet or + 5 Perception goggles (if you get Wis from other sources such as armor).

Your Wizard can at most be a secondary perceptor. Yeah you can (and probably should) sink ranks into the skill, but it will merely be a backup.

What a Wizard/Vivi/AT can excel at, is being a Dex/Int skill monkey. So it is best to max out his Dex/Int skills (Trickery, Mobility, Stealth and Knowledges).

Also it isn't appealing idea to dump WIS to 7. It's possible that will screw you moderately later in game, when you will be attacked by some.... special monsters.

When those... "special" monsters attack a few points in Wisdom won't help you. At all. Freedom of Movement will.

[Zig]

Originally posted by Guy:

Originally posted by Zig:

about the carry weight, if you have ekun in your party or anyone with a pet, you will never have issue with that aswell

I have 3 pets and still extra CC is better than nothing 15 dex vs 14 dex is basically nothing

And this does not help you with personal CC, I have 4 weapons equipped on my sorcerer and the weight accumlate, the 10 starting str does help.

Also some spells require a touch attack ( strengh based )

it is very simple to solve that, just dont take 4 weapons with you, there is literally 0 need for that

[Zig]

Originally posted by Guy:

Originally posted by Zig:

about the carry weight, if you have ekun in your party or anyone with a pet, you will never have issue with that aswell

I have 3 pets and still extra CC is better than nothing 15 dex vs 14 dex is basically nothing

And this does not help you with personal CC, I have 4 weapons equipped on my sorcerer and the weight accumlate, the 10 starting str does help.

Also some spells require a touch attack ( strengh based )

who the ♥♥♥♥ is going to make a wizard cast a strenght based spell? you'd have to go to melee range to use them and that is a AWFUL idea, even if you use the reach metamagic the spell base goes from str to dex, so your advice is just pure ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

[Zig]

if you dont use any armor (it screws with your spell casting), if you dont do the stupid move of carrying 4 weapons with you, you have 0 need for str higher than 7.

[=[NK]= Col. Jack O'Neil]

Touch attack uses dex in this game as its classified as finesse.

I go human, take point blank and precise.

DEX is good for initiative rolls. 8/16/10/20/10/10 has good initiative, good dex for shooting, no penalty shooting into combat (consider less damage by using cantrips) great int for more spells per day /higher saves

If you build a buffing cc wizard you don't need to hit with ranged touches or the 2 feats

[=[NK]= Col. Jack O'Neil]

My octavia only holds the agile rapier nowadays. She gets sneak attack with cantrips and has good to hit with a weapon if anyone gets close

[Guy]

Originally posted by Zig:

Originally posted by Guy:

I have 3 pets and still extra CC is better than nothing 15 dex vs 14 dex is basically nothing

And this does not help you with personal CC, I have 4 weapons equipped on my sorcerer and the weight accumlate, the 10 starting str does help.

Also some spells require a touch attack ( strengh based )

who the ♥♥♥♥ is going to make a wizard cast a strenght based spell? you'd have to go to melee range to use them and that is a AWFUL idea, even if you use the reach metamagic the spell base goes from str to dex, so your advice is just pure ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

No I showed you multiple cases where STR is used, yet you showed exactly 0 reasons why a wizard should have a 15 in any stat instead of a 14. Taking 15 as a wizard in a stat is a pure ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ advice as you put it.

The extra weapons are all for extra spells, for example I have a staff that cast 2 level 8 spells ( summoning monsters ) that alone is already better than all the benefits you mentioned ( which are none )

[whitegoat]

"Necromancy in this game is bollocks. It does damage instead of insta-kills, and all early levels are filled with crappy debuffs. It requires both a failed save AND beating SR to work. A lot of enemies are immune to it (e.g. all Undead). It doesn't benefit from Elemental School focus, so -2 DC compared to Evocation. Its spells can't be Empowered or Maximised, nor do they benefit from Sorcerer's damage bonus due to not being dice-based. And of course Animate Dead / Create Undead are crap compared to their PnP versions."

Almost EVERYTHING in this paragraph is wrong. Necro spell focus works fine for better DC.
It is GREAT agains undead; apart form, you know, having TURN UNDEAD at lvl 1 you also have Area Undeath to death later on.
Has some of the BEST area damage spells in the entire game, like Horrid wilting and wail of the banshee, that DEAL DAMAGE, as in DIE BASED (read the damn pathfinder spells dude, seriously this is not 3.5).

In short Necromancy is one of the, if not THE strongest school in the game.

[Remove skull merchant]

Originally posted by Zig:

about the carry weight, if you have ekun in your party or anyone with a pet, you will never have issue with that aswell

At some point you have to go alone with Nok-Nok and Linzi, or all alone even in some other event. If you like to play dangerously your strong party members could end up dead.