Pathfinder: Kingmaker

Pathfinder: Kingmaker

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Whitman1855 Jul 23, 2021 @ 9:27am
*Spoilers* Is Tsanna, Ironically, A Better Adviser Than Tristan? lol
As the title says.
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Showing 1-15 of 29 comments
InEffect Jul 23, 2021 @ 9:50am 
yes. And it actually makes a lot of sense.
Finrod Jul 23, 2021 @ 9:58am 
Even for a "good" playthrough?
InEffect Jul 23, 2021 @ 10:01am 
Originally posted by Finrod:
Even for a "good" playthrough?
considering everything "good" in this game is a backstabbing a-hole - yes. Including "good" gods. Lamashtu is the only one who even as much as lifts a finger to help you. In my book she's the most benevolent god of all and labels of good/evil are just state propaganda. Same goes for "evil" npcs who are reliable and will go through hell to help you. Much unlike their "good" counterparts who steal, betray, and abandon their duties.
Last edited by InEffect; Jul 23, 2021 @ 10:02am
utilityguy Jul 23, 2021 @ 10:22am 
Originally posted by Finrod:
Even for a "good" playthrough?

I won't lie, that Religious Freedom label on Tsanna is literally the only reason that makes me prioritize her as an adviser, acceptions being a few Kingdom Level-up events where I prefer a better diplomatic approach than Placing someone's head on a pike.
Last edited by utilityguy; Jul 23, 2021 @ 10:37am
Finrod Jul 23, 2021 @ 1:09pm 
Originally posted by InEffect:
Originally posted by Finrod:
Even for a "good" playthrough?
considering everything "good" in this game is a backstabbing a-hole - yes. Including "good" gods. Lamashtu is the only one who even as much as lifts a finger to help you. In my book she's the most benevolent god of all and labels of good/evil are just state propaganda. Same goes for "evil" npcs who are reliable and will go through hell to help you. Much unlike their "good" counterparts who steal, betray, and abandon their duties.


Fair point with the companions LOL Linzi stealing money from barony for her own project, Tristian...well, no comments. Octavia Ekun and Kalikke were OK I think. But none of the evil aligned did something like Tristian or Linzi...
InEffect Jul 23, 2021 @ 1:28pm 
Originally posted by Finrod:
Fair point with the companions LOL Linzi stealing money from barony for her own project, Tristian...well, no comments. Octavia Ekun and Kalikke were OK I think. But none of the evil aligned did something like Tristian or Linzi...
Ekun buggers off to do his personal vendetta without even as much as leaving a note in advance. So much for lawful and good.

Kalikke I don't remember anything too terrible, but then she is a kineticist, which is a high crime to me in itself.

Octavia happily burns her mother alive with the slightest nudge, tries to murder people without a trial(and is a nutjob in general). If there is one companion I'd sleep with one eye open around - that'd be Octavia. Never know if you're gonna wake up with a dagger in your back with the likes of her.
Last edited by InEffect; Jul 23, 2021 @ 1:28pm
Corridian Jul 23, 2021 @ 6:10pm 
she is far and away the best. I ALWAYS execute Tristian
Averagedog Jul 25, 2021 @ 5:31am 
While I disagree with you guys in terms of how you look at Good vs Evil that exist in Golarion as archetypes the gods and people are bound by. I think you guys are also ignoring the impact of those pre existing power structures.

You see, all of the companions that in some way fail you is to be expected. They are not perfect beings and do their own things or have their own issues that you have to effectively solve or assist them in.

the thing with Lamashtu is that she is an evil goddess. Which means the vast majority of people that live in semi stable good aligned kingdoms that are more or less indifferent or does prioritize the good and rights of its citizens are more or less content to exist in that semi stable reality.

So, how does an Evil Goddess like Lamashtu gain a foothold in such societies? They give you a little sugar to help subvert the society. Promises are made, minor miracles are performed to gain the trust of some people in this society that dont' feel like they quite fit, or more delectably, are desperate when their expected avenues of finding assistance fail.

This happening in the game is only really a demonstration of how societal norms are subverted and power and influence grows in a new movement. In other words, it is par for the course in any conflict between religions or societies that are semi at odds with each other.

So to tie things up. Even though the gods and goddeses in Golarion's world are Good, Neutral, or Evil in a systemic sense, the same rules of subversion and friction between powers that be that exist in our world can also be applied. So it isn't surprising that Lamashtu's agents aren't performing cult like rituals and stuff en masse yet because they want to gain a foothold in your kingdom, indoctrinate gain power over your people, then work to subvert the traditions and principles of Erastil your kingdom generally follows due to regional religious dominance.

So yes, Tsanna is a better advisor because she is incentivize truly, for the sake of her religion, to not act out. Give it another couple of years and you can bet there will be some horrific thing your King/Queen would find out about tied to Tsanna due to the demands of her evil goddess. It is only a matter of time.

Last edited by Averagedog; Jul 25, 2021 @ 5:32am
InEffect Jul 25, 2021 @ 5:57am 
^ and there goes fearmongering propaganda from the "good" gods and their "good" servants.
Last edited by InEffect; Jul 25, 2021 @ 6:00am
Averagedog Jul 25, 2021 @ 6:13am 
Originally posted by InEffect:
^ and there goes fearmongering propaganda from the "good" gods and their "good" servants.

Lol. Look. Our World doesn't work like Golarion's World and their gods are literally tied to metaphysical representations of Good, Neutrality, Evil, and other Domains and Sub-Domains. While Propaganda in Golarion does exist, the power dynamics between the different gods and goddesses are generally immutable.
InEffect Jul 25, 2021 @ 8:21am 
Yeah, that's what god faction that won and gets to establish the paradigm wants us to think.

For real, though, if it's that hard to grasp, I can spell it out. In PK the whole moral system is backwards and whoever wrote it that way has serious moral issues, which is what I'm mocking. Evil characters and gods are reliable, useful and upfront. Good are all kinds of degenerates, gods included.

The only logical explanation for that backwards implementation of morals would be good gods and people actually being evil and just masquerading to gain the benefits and to serve their depraved whims while keeping the facade of benevolence and branding good people as evil to get a carte blanche on violence against them.
Last edited by InEffect; Jul 25, 2021 @ 8:30am
jsaving Jul 25, 2021 @ 11:10am 
Lamashtu's goal in the tabletop game is to destroy humankind[pathfinder-kingmaker.fandom.com] so her clergy typically wouldn't be sanctioned even in chaotic evil kingdoms. However Owlcat seems to have pivoted her away from this burn-down-the-house mentality and toward her secondary tabletop role as a guardian of misfits.
Whitman1855 Jul 25, 2021 @ 5:06pm 
Originally posted by jsaving:
Lamashtu's goal in the tabletop game is to destroy humankind[pathfinder-kingmaker.fandom.com] so her clergy typically wouldn't be sanctioned even in chaotic evil kingdoms. However Owlcat seems to have pivoted her away from this burn-down-the-house mentality and toward her secondary tabletop role as a guardian of misfits.

This. Considering how hilarious the Nok Nok side quests are. lol
Hasefrexx Jul 25, 2021 @ 10:31pm 
Originally posted by Finrod:
Originally posted by InEffect:
considering everything "good" in this game is a backstabbing a-hole - yes. Including "good" gods. Lamashtu is the only one who even as much as lifts a finger to help you. In my book she's the most benevolent god of all and labels of good/evil are just state propaganda. Same goes for "evil" npcs who are reliable and will go through hell to help you. Much unlike their "good" counterparts who steal, betray, and abandon their duties.


Fair point with the companions LOL Linzi stealing money from barony for her own project, Tristian...well, no comments. Octavia Ekun and Kalikke were OK I think. But none of the evil aligned did something like Tristian or Linzi...

Well, I thought that Linzi did her thing because of chaotic alignment. Tristian feels a bit off admitedly though he's been manipulated.

Reg and Jaethal don't oppose the MC like others do but they are definitely morally worse in my book. Nok nok doesn't feel too evilish let alone chaotic evil and is the odd guy in the mix.
InEffect Jul 25, 2021 @ 10:59pm 
Originally posted by Hasefrexx:
Well, I thought that Linzi did her thing because of chaotic alignment.
Stealing is evil no matter the excuses she makes to make herself sleep better. And she does it for selfish reasons too, so it's doubly evil. Maybe that money was designated for building some orphanages? Maybe it puts the kingdom into unrest? - she doesn't care one bit how many people die for the new toy she wants.

Originally posted by Hasefrexx:
Tristian feels a bit off admitedly though he's been manipulated.
No, he wasn't. He knew exactly what he was doing. His a-hole "good" god also played a role in it, which doesn't make the situation any better.

Originally posted by Hasefrexx:
Reg and Jaethal don't oppose the MC like others do but they are definitely morally worse in my book. Nok nok doesn't feel too evilish let alone chaotic evil and is the odd guy in the mix.
Jaethal doesn't even do anything bad. Elves come there with explicit purpose to hunt her and the other groups death is a direct result of another "good" npc actions.
Reg is more tribal than evil. He doesn't give much of a damn about anyone outside his moral commune. And most importantly, neither hurt you nor your kingdom in any way.
Last edited by InEffect; Jul 25, 2021 @ 11:27pm
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Date Posted: Jul 23, 2021 @ 9:27am
Posts: 29