kinetic knight vs other kineticists

[igor140]

i REALLY like the idea of the kineticist, and i'm trying to make it work without going overboard with the min-maxing.

as i see it, there really three different viable kineticist builds (which may not be equal): kinetic knight, base kineticist, and psychokineticist+monk1. i'm sure the dark elementalist could be made to work... but something's got to get thrown out. anyway, here are my thoughts; please correct me if i'm wrong.

KINETIC KNIGHT
pros: 0 burn kinetic blade. the obvious selling point here. also, the ability to use shields, but meh. and that's about it. the Resolve stuff seems too little too late to me; nothing a cleric or paladin can't do for you.

cons: no ranged infusions, and therefore a much more limited set of wild talents... and therefore kind of dead weight from more than 5ft. even bigger deal: no metamagic.

overall: the cons seem to outweigh the pros by the time you get to lvl 11ish. unless i'm missing something, all those Infusion Specialist stacks will offset pretty much any possible Burn your infusions could ever generate, because you have so few options to begin with. i guess that means you don't ever have to use gather power and can just full-round attack every turn... if you ever need to use a composite blast, pop on Gather Power or just eat the burn... it will be literally the only thing that will generate it.

BASE KINETICIST
pros: pretty much all the advantages of all the archetypes

cons: not survivable in melee

overall: seems like a solid choice so long as you can keep him off the front lies. managing burn will probably be a legitimate concern throughout the entire playthrough, but shouldn't get out of hand. considering you'll need to use Gather Power anyway to fuel metamagics, it's not a major loss.

PSYCHOKINETICIST + MONK1
pros: MUCH more survivability. probably won't be a tank, but can definitely dash into the front lines if he has to. the Crane Wing feats seems solid because there aren't many great kineticist feats (finesse, dodge, weapon focus... that seems to be about it)

cons: notably lower burn cap. still a back-line fighter until Infusion Specialist 1. same burn concerns as the standard kineticist.

overall: i personally see this as the best option. once you start getting some of the good burn-costing modals (celerity, flame shield, etc), those should eat up the majority of your burn limit anyway... and by then you should have PLENTY of WIS boosting items.

ssooooo... those are my thoughts. any thoughts from you more experienced players?

[Frostfeather]

I believe a selling point for KK with CotW is the swift Blade Rush, which is basically like a pounce. Without CotW, they're not quite as good... but they're never going to reach the levels of damage a ranged Kineticist can do later in the game either way.

Psychokineticist/Monk is good I'm sure, but I can't ever seem to justify delaying Kineticist infusions/blast upgrades by a level to pick up that Monk level. Personally, I like Overwhelming Soul (CotW) the best by far, though base Kineticist is arguably the most powerful.

The problem with deciding between ranged Kineticists is that they all become pretty ridiculously strong, and you'll likely not be relying on your stats (or rolling) to hit after a certain point. So you might decide based more on personal preference, rp flavor, or something like that.

[igor140]

yeah, rp-wise, i wanted a character who could off-tank and survive in melee, so i think the monk level is justified. if i planned on keeping her ranged, i certainly would have gone straight kineticist, though.

what do you like about the overwhelming soul? i didn't like the no-burn-at-all thing, and the only advantages they seem to get in return are an increasing bonus to attack (which is certain a big deal) and damage (which is negligible).

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by igor140:

what do you like about the overwhelming soul? i didn't like the no-burn-at-all thing, and the only advantages they seem to get in return are an increasing bonus to attack (which is certain a big deal) and damage (which is negligible).

I like having a Charisma based Kineticist. Partly for the Charisma skills, especially Persuasion for Dreadful Carnage, which you can get really early as a Fire Kineticist. (And Fire is especially good in CotW because a few other classes get Flame Curse, which has no save and adds Fire vulnerability.) UMD can help against enemies immune to your element. And there's a Feat that lets you use your Charisma for Will saves, which a Kineticist can easily afford.

Partly because I often take a Court Poet Skald and the Overwhelming Soul gets something out of the Insightful Contemplation. Partly because I like Aasimars (especially Musetouched) and it's a good fit.

Mostly personal preference type stuff.

[Agony_Aunt]

KK is fun for Varnhold's lot, as you're playing at levels where it is still a good class. It does tend to fall behind the other kineticists at higher levels.

But still, having fantasy jedi in your party is fun regardless.