Pathfinder: Kingmaker

Pathfinder: Kingmaker

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CaimDark Aug 20, 2021 @ 10:46pm
Longbow for Linzi worth it?
I'm following a Fextralife character guide geared towards beginners, and it says to use Longbow as Linzi's weapon of choice and invest in Longbow focus and Longbow Improved critical.

However, when I equipped Linzi with a longbow, I noticed she gets a penalty to damage, I assume size has something to do with it, and does less damage than with a light crossbow.

The guide doesn't mention that and doesn't really explain why the damage penalty is worth it. Should I invest in the longbow feats for Linzi or ignore that and have her stick to crossbows?
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Showing 1-15 of 38 comments
Martialis Aug 21, 2021 @ 12:02am 
She takes penalties to damage with longbows both because of her small size and because of her lack of strength.

It takes a lot of feats to make a good archer, and bards also don't have the full BAB which is essential.

IMO, she should be treated as a buffer and skill monkey, with her feats helping her songs, spells, and skills. She can plink away with a light xbow if she really has nothing else to do, but she will never be good at it.
CaimDark Aug 21, 2021 @ 12:30am 
Originally posted by Martialis:
She takes penalties to damage with longbows both because of her small size and because of her lack of strength.

It takes a lot of feats to make a good archer, and bards also don't have the full BAB which is essential.

IMO, she should be treated as a buffer and skill monkey, with her feats helping her songs, spells, and skills. She can plink away with a light xbow if she really has nothing else to do, but she will never be good at it.

https://fextralife.com/pathfinder-kingmaker-builds-linzi-the-bard/

This is the guide. Like you said, her focus is on support, only with 2 ranger levels thrown in to improve a bit her bow damage and get the freebooter's bane feat. Seems straightforward enough, only thing that confused me was the suggestion to use longbows and invest in the corresponding feats after I realized she deals less damage with a longbow than with a light crossbow.
Hasefrexx Aug 21, 2021 @ 1:57am 
Giving her crossbows make sense. She will never be good at shooting, so here's someone to make use of crossbows. Keep longbows for people who can make good use of it.

Though you can go for the freebooter's bane, it scales with level. I would rather get a fully fledged freebooter and a bard (or no booter at all). Your bard will end up with 2 free actions to perform, so the bane won't be up until her 2nd round. You lose on song and spell progress too while it's the only good thing she can do. Not worth the trade off IMO.
NamelessOne Aug 21, 2021 @ 4:34am 
That guide is almost 3 years old and was bad the day it was published.

All you need from the bard for buffing is the song and the heroism spell. She isn't a terrible dragon disciple if you want to do something different with her.
dwarfpcfan Aug 21, 2021 @ 7:48am 
Linzi should be using crossbows, there are plenty of excellent crossbows in the game, most of them you get for free from your craftsmen
Agony_Aunt Aug 21, 2021 @ 9:06pm 
Only reason to use longbow with Linzi is if you're going to completely rebuild her as a longbow specialist. Bards can be decent longbow users, but not with Linzi's stats.
CaimDark Aug 22, 2021 @ 1:31pm 
Originally posted by NamelessOne:
That guide is almost 3 years old and was bad the day it was published.

All you need from the bard for buffing is the song and the heroism spell. She isn't a terrible dragon disciple if you want to do something different with her.

Did the game change a lot since then? Any recommended guide? I'm playing on normal and not interested in min-maxing, or complicated builds, I just don't want to end up with a party so weak I can't clear some of the later battles.
Frostfeather Aug 22, 2021 @ 1:36pm 
Another possible reason to have her use a crossbow is if you've got Seize the Moment on her plus some melee, as she'll proc it more often with the crossbow's higher crit range.

Seize the Moment or not, you'll want to be getting more of your damage from Sense Vitals anyway (a great candidate for the multiple Lesser Extend Rods you'll likely have laying around).
CaimDark Aug 22, 2021 @ 2:38pm 
Originally posted by Mr Fred:
Poor OP the actual only helpful answer to his post got deleted for no valid reason at all.

I reported you, and did so again. What you're doing is the opposite of helping. and it's worse that you keep coming back and doing it again. Even if what you're saying is true, You know full well XP can be shared equally with off-party characters. Please stop. This is really not cool.
Mr Fred Aug 22, 2021 @ 2:42pm 
Originally posted by CaimDark:
Originally posted by Mr Fred:
Poor OP the actual only helpful answer to his post got deleted for no valid reason at all.

I reported you, and did so again. What you're doing is the opposite of helping. and it's worse that you keep coming back and doing it again. Even if what you're saying is true, You know full well XP can be shared equally with off-party characters. Please stop. This is really not cool.
If you want another advice its that xp sharing to off-party characters is terrible. I'll delete previous post myself since you obviously dont seem to be the kind of person that want actual good advice (/shrug) and ill respect that.
Mork Aug 22, 2021 @ 2:46pm 
Bard make very average archer and Linzi is a bellow average bard...

Is she going to be to worst thing ever as a archer? No, but the difference between Linzi archer versus Ekun is gonna be huge.

I never use Linzi for spoiler reason but if i was i would probably give her a heavy crossbow with point blank shot -> precise shot -> rapid shot -> and maybe imp critical heavy crossbow.
vysionier Aug 22, 2021 @ 3:40pm 
Originally posted by Mork:
Bard make very average archer and Linzi is a bellow average bard...

Is she going to be to worst thing ever as a archer? No, but the difference between Linzi archer versus Ekun is gonna be huge.

I never use Linzi for spoiler reason but if i was i would probably give her a heavy crossbow with point blank shot -> precise shot -> rapid shot -> and maybe imp critical heavy crossbow.

Wouldn’t you also need rapid reload in order to get rapid shot?
Mork Aug 22, 2021 @ 4:02pm 
Originally posted by vysionier:

Wouldn’t you also need rapid reload in order to get rapid shot?

I think rapid reload is like a hidden passive everyone get for free in this video game.
Last edited by Mork; Aug 22, 2021 @ 4:04pm
vysionier Aug 22, 2021 @ 4:09pm 
Originally posted by Mork:
Originally posted by vysionier:

Wouldn’t you also need rapid reload in order to get rapid shot?

I think rapid reload is like a hidden passive everyone get for free in this video game.
Oh wow. That truly makes crossbows overpowered! Why would anyone without decent str bother with long/short bows at that point?!?
Last edited by vysionier; Aug 22, 2021 @ 4:14pm
Martialis Aug 22, 2021 @ 8:00pm 
Originally posted by vysionier:
Originally posted by Mork:

I think rapid reload is like a hidden passive everyone get for free in this video game.
Oh wow. That truly makes crossbows overpowered! Why would anyone without decent str bother with long/short bows at that point?!?

In this game, xbows have the same firing rate as short and longbows. They are great for characters with low to average strength.

Fighter and ranger bow archers need both a high strength for damage and a high dex to hit anything. Since strength doesn't affect crossbows, that could be a reason to use crossbows instead and just ignore that stat. That counterpoint is the meta that there are a lot of great longbows in the game, including one you get very early, so you are kind of gimping yourself as an archer going crossbows instead of longbows.
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Date Posted: Aug 20, 2021 @ 10:46pm
Posts: 38