Alchemists (and Archetypes) Really not Arcane??

[LevelSix_SYSTEM]

Alchemy has always been an 'arcane' art (whilst in past, being the unknown chemistry) ... Even in the game the Alchemy Shop boosts Arcane so why in the devil dont they qualify as arcane casters??? Thought the Vivisectionist would have the sneak die and the arcane 2nd lv spells and after hitting lv 4 it showed i didnt meet the arcane spell req... (never mind they get Knowledge: ARCANE)

[Pogey-Bait]

Alchemy, in my mind, is more like science than magic.

[Daidre]

Trickster is all about adding sneak attack dice to damage spells - that Alchemist do not have access to by design, no Evocation or Conjuration in spell book.
So it is incompatible, and pointless, by the rules.

[Near Gravity]

Yep, no, they are not arcane.

All their abilities are ripped from arcane spells and such, but they are not arcane casters, or presumably even magical.

[Caelinus]

Originally posted by Near Gravity:

Yep, no, they are not arcane.

All their abilities are ripped from arcane spells and such, but they are not arcane casters, or presumably even magical.

They are magical, but they use a different kind of magic (per Parthfinder rules.)

Alchemists draw their power from their spirit/lifeforce/potential, and then use it to enhance scientific devices and concoctions. This is important, because that internal magic is why someone else can't just take the same ingredients and get the same result.

Each type of magic has a different source:

Arcane: Fundamental laws of reality being changed by force of will or knowledge.
Divine: Directly from gods or god like beings.
Psychic/Occult: It just comes from weirdness.

Alchemists, Monks, and the like are kind of ill defined, and their power just seems to be something natural to them.

I really wish Occult abilities were in this game. The Occultist, my favorite, gets its power by resonating with artifacts that have some sort of meaning. Like if you gave them Houdini's rope, they could use it to cast spells related to his life, and so would get stuff like escape spells.

[Near Gravity]

Originally posted by Caelinus:

Originally posted by Near Gravity:

Yep, no, they are not arcane.

All their abilities are ripped from arcane spells and such, but they are not arcane casters, or presumably even magical.

They are magical, but they use a different kind of magic (per Parthfinder rules.)

Alchemists draw their power from their spirit/lifeforce/potential, and then use it to enhance scientific devices and concoctions. This is important, because that internal magic is why someone else can't just take the same ingredients and get the same result.

Each type of magic has a different source:

Arcane: Fundamental laws of reality being changed by force of will or knowledge.
Divine: Directly from gods or god like beings.
Psychic/Occult: It just comes from weirdness.

Alchemists, Monks, and the like are kind of ill defined, and their power just seems to be something natural to them.

I really wish Occult abilities were in this game. The Occultist, my favorite, gets its power by resonating with artifacts that have some sort of meaning. Like if you gave them Houdini's rope, they could use it to cast spells related to his life, and so would get stuff like escape spells.

Well, lore typically has to explain something to suspend disbelief.

[Caelinus]

Originally posted by Near Gravity:

Originally posted by Caelinus:

They are magical, but they use a different kind of magic (per Parthfinder rules.)

Alchemists draw their power from their spirit/lifeforce/potential, and then use it to enhance scientific devices and concoctions. This is important, because that internal magic is why someone else can't just take the same ingredients and get the same result.

Each type of magic has a different source:

Arcane: Fundamental laws of reality being changed by force of will or knowledge.
Divine: Directly from gods or god like beings.
Psychic/Occult: It just comes from weirdness.

Alchemists, Monks, and the like are kind of ill defined, and their power just seems to be something natural to them.

I really wish Occult abilities were in this game. The Occultist, my favorite, gets its power by resonating with artifacts that have some sort of meaning. Like if you gave them Houdini's rope, they could use it to cast spells related to his life, and so would get stuff like escape spells.

Well, lore typically has to explain something to suspend disbelief.

Magic is always at least a little ad hoc lol.

[Near Gravity]

Originally posted by Caelinus:

Originally posted by Near Gravity:

Well, lore typically has to explain something to suspend disbelief.

Magic is always at least a little ad hoc lol.

Not necessarily.

[LevelSix_SYSTEM]

Originally posted by Caelinus:

Originally posted by Near Gravity:

Yep, no, they are not arcane.

All their abilities are ripped from arcane spells and such, but they are not arcane casters, or presumably even magical.

They are magical, but they use a different kind of magic (per Parthfinder rules.)

Alchemists draw their power from their spirit/lifeforce/potential, and then use it to enhance scientific devices and concoctions. This is important, because that internal magic is why someone else can't just take the same ingredients and get the same result.

Each type of magic has a different source:

Arcane: Fundamental laws of reality being changed by force of will or knowledge.
Divine: Directly from gods or god like beings.
Psychic/Occult: It just comes from weirdness.

Alchemists, Monks, and the like are kind of ill defined, and their power just seems to be something natural to them.

I really wish Occult abilities were in this game. The Occultist, my favorite, gets its power by resonating with artifacts that have some sort of meaning. Like if you gave them Houdini's rope, they could use it to cast spells related to his life, and so would get stuff like escape spells.

When you say their magic comes from their spirit/lifeforce/potential the first thing that came to mind was an Alchemist sitting there making concoctions out of his own sweat....
BUT that makes sense I guess, thanks

[Bongo.tmp+]

Now, the thing is, Alchemist in Pathfinder Kingmaker can be misunderstood very easily. It is not, that they are not arcane casters, they are not even casters.

As can be seen in the Pathfinder Wiki: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/, Alchemists don't cast their spells, instead they prepare extracts (think potions) which work like their respective spells. The Alchemist prepares a couple of these for the day. In the game this is represented as the Alchemist just casting them as a spell, which may have been done for budget reasons.