@DEVS - Summoned Creatures - 1 round/lvl?

[Teralitha]

So basically, any low level summoned creature will get (maybe) one attack before it disappears. Seems kinda stupid and useless.. It should be more like 1 minute per level duration. Other D&D games do much longer durations for summoned creatures. Including the board games its based on. They at least should always last for the entire battle encounter. That would make alot more sense.

Secondly, You have enemy summoners who just spam summoned creatures as their only trick, yet all you have to do is target only them because killing the caster makes their summons disappear, which is another reason why this games summmoning mechanic is dumb.

Summoning creatures is a useless line of spells in this game.

[Stink Bug]

Take your first issue up with Wizards of the Coast and Paizio, Summons lasting 1 round/level is a DnD 3e thing and Owlcat is following the rules. Besides after a few caster levels they last long enough to get the job done. If you want 1 minute per level summons try the Monster Tactician Inquisitor.

The second issue is a result of the poor and minimal caster AI in this game. Pretty much every caster ends up spamming just one spell the whole battle, and probably won't ever be fixed. Luckily it sounds like Wrath of the Righteous has much improved on this aspect.

[Zzyl_tsw]

Just in case :
The number of rounds is depending on the caster level.
So even a lvl 1 spell summon can stay 12 round if summoned by a lvl 12 mage/priest.

And summoning multiple mid/high level summons with my high level hyppy priest before some tough fight did helped me, so it is not useless.
But i understand that at low level, it is not useful.

In addition, most of the game with summoned creature having a long duration only allow one summoned creature per caster, what is not the case here.

[dulany67]

Talk to my herald caller who can put about 30 skeletons on the screen.

[Teralitha]

Originally posted by dulany67:

Talk to my herald caller who can put about 30 skeletons on the screen.

I was using a herald caller, and it was still a disappointment.

[Teralitha]

Originally posted by Stink Bug:

Take your first issue up with Wizards of the Coast and Paizio, Summons lasting 1 round/level is a DnD 3e thing and Owlcat is following the rules. Besides after a few caster levels they last long enough to get the job done. If you want 1 minute per level summons try the Monster Tactician Inquisitor.

The second issue is a result of the poor and minimal caster AI in this game. Pretty much every caster ends up spamming just one spell the whole battle, and probably won't ever be fixed. Luckily it sounds like Wrath of the Righteous has much improved on this aspect.

Summons in this game do not behave exactly like the 3ed spell. Only similar. The 3ed spell states that a summon appears and attacks in the same round that it is cast. That is not the case here. In this game it only appears at the end of the round and doesnt get to act until the next round.

In order for it to be exactly like the 3ed rules using this games mechanics, it would have to have a duration of 2 rounds + 1/lvl

Also, no where does it state that summons disappear if the caster dies. Sorry, but my OP is correct and the complaint is valid.

[Teralitha]

Nothing worse than some rules lawyer trying to be a dictator. Its a game. If something isnt working well it can be changed.

[Hasefrexx]

Originally posted by Teralitha:

Originally posted by dulany67:

Talk to my herald caller who can put about 30 skeletons on the screen.

I was using a herald caller, and it was still a disappointment.

Then you're doing it wrong. Been spamming summons, particularly skeletons even during late game. They won't clear encounters on their own but that's perfect shield while your party does the job without being outnumbered.

[InEffect]

Animate dead are not summons and don't benefit from any summon-related feats, so your herald caller traded 1 domain power for nothing.

[Stink Bug]

Originally posted by Teralitha:

Originally posted by Stink Bug:

Take your first issue up with Wizards of the Coast and Paizio, Summons lasting 1 round/level is a DnD 3e thing and Owlcat is following the rules. Besides after a few caster levels they last long enough to get the job done. If you want 1 minute per level summons try the Monster Tactician Inquisitor.

The second issue is a result of the poor and minimal caster AI in this game. Pretty much every caster ends up spamming just one spell the whole battle, and probably won't ever be fixed. Luckily it sounds like Wrath of the Righteous has much improved on this aspect.

Summons in this game do not behave exactly like the 3ed spell. Only similar. The 3ed spell states that a summon appears and attacks in the same round that it is cast. That is not the case here. In this game it only appears at the end of the round and doesnt get to act until the next round.

In order for it to be exactly like the 3ed rules using this games mechanics, it would have to have a duration of 2 rounds + 1/lvl

Also, no where does it state that summons disappear if the caster dies. Sorry, but my OP is correct and the complaint is valid.

I'm assuming you're using turn-based mode with that behavior; instead of having the character be casting for an entire round as it should, Owlcat opted to "simulate" the 1 round casting by having the summon be inactive for that same round. The end result is the same as it should be and last I checked it didn't count against the duration.

For summons disappearing, you are correct in that they shouldn't die with the caster.

[Teralitha]

I dont use turn based mode. The summons do not appear until the round is finished and the spell is cast and do not get to act until the next round.

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by InEffect:

Animate dead are not summons and don't benefit from any summon-related feats, so your herald caller traded 1 domain power for nothing.

There is a ton of gear that improves undead summons only. Not like they are going to carry your team, but they are great for meat shields.

[thelebk]

I for one am glad the game largely follows the PnP rules. I do see the OPs point that low level summoners are not a viable build (save for herald caller). A compromise mechanic might be 1 round per level + 1d4 rounds so a low level summons would have at least a chance to make a difference. Also, the OP is missing out on turn based mode. It makes non-trivial fights much more fun and allows for items that add extra actions, initiative modifiers, potions etc. to actually matte in this game. RTWP makes all of this richness moot.

[Teralitha]

I prefer the semi real time combat. Turn based just seems cheaty the way you put it. Its sad that they add things that only benefit turn based combat.

[InEffect]

Originally posted by Dixon Sider:

There is a ton of gear that improves undead summons only. Not like they are going to carry your team, but they are great for meat shields.

A ton aka 1 staff.

[mbradtke]

Originally posted by Teralitha:

I prefer the semi real time combat. Turn based just seems cheaty the way you put it. Its sad that they add things that only benefit turn based combat.

because turn-based-combat is just better!!! (-: