Worst classes

[konokono]

So I'm interested in reading people's opinions on the worst classes. Specifically what is the worst overall class and what is the worst kit in each class group?

I like reading "worst of lists" because I'm already used to thinking all the time about what's the best, but don't spend as much time thinking about what's the worst... should be an interesting topic to discuss

[InEffect]

Inquisitor takes the cake. Sacred is not too awful, but it's still nothing one can't live without.
Rogue and barb are dumpster-tier too, with the exception of scoundrel that does the whole archery thing well.
Fighter pretty much amounts to 2 feats if you have 2 levels spare... I think you get the pattern by now. Everything that doesn't have at least some spells(preferably, arcane) is a bottom feeder. Even spreads that use most of their levels for a martial class pick archae2/DD4 or Scion1/DD4 to get up to speed with something like DG3/deliverer12/Scion1/DD4 being an example.

[Mork]

I do like playing with base rogue and fighter but they are on the ''worst'' side in general.

Still... for me the worst class doesn't mean unfun, which is the most important part.

[Remove skull merchant]

Originally posted by InEffect:

Inquisitor takes the cake. Sacred is not too awful, but it's still nothing one can't live without.
Rogue and barb are dumpster-tier too, with the exception of scoundrel that does the whole archery thing well.
Fighter pretty much amounts to 2 feats if you have 2 levels spare... I think you get the pattern by now. Everything that doesn't have at least some spells(preferably, arcane) is a bottom feeder. Even spreads that use most of their levels for a martial class pick archae2/DD4 or Scion1/DD4 to get up to speed with something like DG3/deliverer12/Scion1/DD4 being an example.

Preferably arcane ? I don't know yet for sure. Without any divine magic in your party you would at least have some very expensive and long shopping trips for spells like raise, dead restoration, remove blindness, and so on. And arcane/divine magic overlap significantly. Paladins will likely be able to UMD many needed arcane things anyway. I would believe it if you said the top two strongest classes are arcane, though.

[NamelessOne]

Most of the good cc and avoid dying spells (mirror image) are arcane. Divine has some buffs and bandaids for the most part. Magus and sorcerers (including archetypes) are the two strongest groups for this reason. Bard is also relatively strong for similar reasons.

I'm not like some people who go all in for discarding pure martials, but in a party ye old full class fighter types are barely above summons and animal companions. They need multiclassing or very focused builds to beat the buffed animals and dead guys that arcane AND divine casters can bring.

[DarkFenix]

Ranger. Probably not quite so bad here as in pnp, but it's generally obsoleted by other classes at anything it can do.

Inquisitor is pretty poor too. Relies on a lot of self-buffing to function as a martial, while other martials will have cut half the enemy to pieces by the time they've finished doing their makeup.

[InEffect]

Booter is anywhere from +2 to +5 stackable AB for the whole party. It's good.

[Uzkin]

I would say Chirurgeon is the worst kit. For the reason that you would never, ever pick Chirurgeon levels for any build (if usefulness is your criterion -- silly RP is a different matter).

[Remove skull merchant]

Originally posted by DarkFenix:

Ranger. Probably not quite so bad here as in pnp, but it's generally obsoleted by other classes at anything it can do.

Inquisitor is pretty poor too. Relies on a lot of self-buffing to function as a martial, while other martials will have cut half the enemy to pieces by the time they've finished doing their makeup.

Inquisitor is more of a RP class, I get some use out of Jaethal in the first 4 Acts, but she of course has advantages above a regular Inquisitor..

[InEffect]

Originally posted by Uzkin:

I would say Chirurgeon is the worst kit. For the reason that you would never, ever pick Chirurgeon levels for any build (if usefulness is your criterion -- silly RP is a different matter).

It's still an alchemist, though, so he's fine by that virtue.

[Uzkin]

Originally posted by InEffect:

Originally posted by Uzkin:

I would say Chirurgeon is the worst kit. For the reason that you would never, ever pick Chirurgeon levels for any build (if usefulness is your criterion -- silly RP is a different matter).

It's still an alchemist, though, so he's fine by that virtue.

Sure, but as a kit within a class it is the worst. If your char takes alchemist levels, those should always be either vivi or base/grenadier depending on the char. Chirurgeon is always strictly worse.

[InEffect]

Well duh, but the list would be too long then. Easier to just single out classes that don't have anything much to offer. I mean even the healer alchemist is not unusable if you absolutely have to, unlike trying to make inquisitor work on unfair, save for archer sacred.

[✙205🍉🐆→]

maybe pure bard
in other dnd or near dnd games i would said 100% pure paladin (besides blobbers)

[Sami]

I dont understand why people dislike the inquisitor so much, it has all the useful cleric spells like Freedom of Movement, Restoration, Deathward etc. While bringing in a lot of extra damage with judgements, greater bane+ resounding blow. And these buffs are swift actions so they dont take a lot of time to cast. Currently playing it on unfair and the damage is high enough to kill even bosses in 1-2 turns. Than again, most enemies have too little HP anyway. Plus, the inquisitor saves are higher so dodging AoE spells like banschee's or the stunning cry from the lonely barrow guy is a lot more reliable. On top of that all the bonus damage the inquisitor gets can be used when critting, unlike sneak damage etc.

[InEffect]

Originally posted by Sami:

I dont understand why people dislike the inquisitor so much, it has all the useful cleric spells like Freedom of Movement, Restoration, Deathward etc.

Those are not useful. Scrolls are dirt-cheap. Useful cleric spells are animate dead at CL 3, archons, scaled magic vestment, bestow grace

Originally posted by Sami:

While bringing in a lot of extra damage with judgements, greater bane+ resounding blow.

Show me an inquisitor that does 600+ damage per round, has 70+AC and mirror. Cause that's a bare-minimum package that we can expect from actually useful frontline team members. Bonus points for doubling that damage or having level8 spells while at it.

[Буря Эмоций]

Base alchemist - poison resistance is joke. Deny poison and job done. I will prefer breath of life over trait that can be done by lvl2 spell anyday.

Invulnerable barbarian. DR don't stack and wait for lvl 17 to get 11DR to top stone skin... also elemental resistant - same with poison, almost every spell list have energy protection with 10 resistance at base.

Base rogue when there is knife master...

Divine hunter - you will be better with normal paladin archer.

Base magus - he's good, but with full bloodline, every archetypes straight up better.

Blight druid- only take it for domains (but his moonfire is buged and deals only 1d6)

Base slayer - just take any archetype

Flame Dancer - just the worst. Fire resistance performance when there is spell for that... AND you get worse spells than flamewarden ranger (FOUR LEVEL CASTER GET BETTER SPELLS!)

Any prestige class that is not magic trickster.

Base monk ki powers can't sway me away from traditional monk will save

And some defense for often mentioned classes:
Ranger - if you take animal companion, it automatically good (pets are OP in kingmaker)
Inquisitor - not the greatest, but he actually can do some interesting things like frontline heal self or swift action to entangle beasts.
Base warrior- he is ok, good saves, good DPS, armor training is nice and a lot of feats. He just... auto attack only and boring.