Problem with bulding fun&powerfull MC

[Zaboleq]

Hi,

Right now I'm Sword Saint lvl 6 (almost 7) and I have to say I do not like it. The fact that I need to constantly toggle off/on his skills and at least early levels he is not that powerful with his spells and can have max lvl 6 spells. I'm not saying it is bad but I just don't know how to micro him properly. Which abilities should be toggled off/on and when. As this is my MC I have not dumped Wis/Cha but of course I an still change it to maybe buf con a little bit.

I was thinking about rerolling to other class but thing is I'm not sure which Class would best mix into my party composition:

MC: Sword Saint
Valerie
Amari (Mad Dog so have animal companion)
Tristian
Linzi
Octavia

Valerie is of course the main tank and Amari is also quite tanky (26 ac at lvl 6, nothing special but not that worse I think). SS is quite tanky and if buffed he can stand quite long but his HP is not highest and I have to say I'm just now enjoying it so much.
I would like to stay with Tristian/Linzi/Octavia because 1st is a great healer and can buff nicely but of course, he is not that tanky as Harrim but can cast/heal much more.

So I guess my MC should be frontliner but I'm not sure which one. I was thinking about Paladin(not sure about subclass) because it is nice to have those good saves against Fear and there are some nice group buffs/auras (group Mark of Justice)

Druid (Defender of Tru World) - not sure if he can stand in 1st line next to Amari and Valerie. I've heard late game is full of Fey enemies so I think he can be nice addition beside he looks cool on paper.

Melee Kineticist (Kinetic Knight?) - Just read something he can be frontliner and can deal nice damage and that he can be a great opener to a lot of fights. Kinetic Knight can be pretty tanky and maybe even do more dmg than Valerie? Earth as first element and water later or maybe water first as I have Valerie in team anyway.

Sylvan Sorcerer (another animal companion, and he is OP as far as I've heard)
Human Flame Spirit Shaman ?
Pure Occultist ?

Maybe some of those can't really stand in 1st line with Octavia and Amari?

[lordgizka]

I finished the game on Challenging with a Sword Saint (dueling sword) once, with STR dropped, obviously. It's pretty damn OP, don't know what you're on about. At the endgame, you are incredibly tanky and crit all the freaking time. Magus shenanigans are a minor bonus to how OP this class is...

[Indure]

A properly built sword saint is buy far one of the strongest classes in the game, so underpowered shouldn't be an issue. If your not having fun though you can try another class.

Paladin is one of the weakest classes in game and honestly if you didn't like sword saint I don't know why you would like paladin.

Druid is okay, but needs lot of items to be good compared to other melee and his spells are powerful but can be hard to use since they are wide range AOE that hit your party as well.

Sylvan sorcerer is great but don't expect to be casting spells nonstop. 90% of the time you will be shooting a bow because most enemies can be killed by your melee so fast it's not worth prepping a spell.

Never played a kinetiscist but I heard they are also powerful.

[TG]

If you play a SS and Valerie is your main tank you are doing it wrong.

[lordgizka]

Originally posted by Indure:

Paladin is one of the weakest classes in game and honestly if you didn't like sword saint I don't know why you would like paladin.

Boss fights go real fast when Mark of Justice is on, especially if combined with a bard + something like Inspire Ferocity on Barbarian. This actually mostly solves fighting endgame crap with AC 50+. If alignment matches...

[jsaving]

It sounds like the OP dislikes the micro that is needed to properly manage a sword saint, wishes he could cast 9th level spells, and places a really high value on animal companions. If that's how he sees it then defender of the true world and sylvan sorcerer would be solid fits for his playstyle.

[Zaboleq]

Well I'm not saying SS is ♥♥♥♥ but I do not know how to use his arcane pool efectively. I guess some if not most "skills" should be disabled for easy fights and turned on for BIG fights. Could not find any guide which could help me understand how to play SS to get most of his skills/abilities.

I do not remember my exact stats now. I can post them later. I just remember that I have not dumped Wis/Cha because someone told me they are needed for MC.

[Notabot187]

I would like to point out that AC 26 at level 6 isn't "somewhat tanky", its actually kinda bad. I use Amiri as a reach weapon enlarge person 2nd line character usually. She can hit hard, but is not really tanky at all.

Magus is a high skill character. I don't recommend it for PF newbies. Druid and Sylvan sorcerer I do recommend however.

[Morgian]

If you want to have fun with a tank, simply build a fighter, use fauchard (exotic) and go for reach and improved trip attacks. It is simple, but effective and needs practically no micromanagement. Paladins can be OP, but not so much in Kingmaker, because many foes (like all of them in the last chapters) are not evil and their smite does not work. Still, if you make it to 20, he gets the bonus that his channel is always maximized (which is very handy). His big weakness as always is the lack of feats, so you cannot waste one. Another nice possibility is the monk. They can tank and boast high damage paired with resilience (no weak save). Their ki powers are only for emergency use and can be easily microed (like true strike). There is some powerful gear for monks around, too, especially after Varnhold. Their problem is that they are MAD, but stat belts and later on your crown help with that (as well as Bokken's masterpiece after Pitax).

I find druids somewhat weak, which means I never cared for the class and learned to make something out of them. They are lacking some abilities in this game, too. AC 26 is horrible for a main tank, unless you play with less than normal damage dished out to you.

[Notabot187]

Originally posted by Morgian:

I find druids somewhat weak, which means I never cared for the class and learned to make something out of them. They are lacking some abilities in this game, too. AC 26 is horrible for a main tank, unless you play with less than normal damage dished out to you.

Druids are still powerful in this game, even with some of the options not available or as powerful as they can be in P&P. Animal companion + 9 level casting and 3/4 BAB hits most of the strong points of character creation. It does take a bit of knowledge about which buffs to use and when however.

[Halfgeek]

The way this game works and PnP in general, is that if you have a party of 6, with decent melees, they will end up doing so much damage that its entirely inefficient to waste spells on nuke or blasting.

Any decent 2H build for instance, will hit for 40+ dmg mid-game onwards, multiple times, cleaving packs or triggering attacks of opportunity for other melee to join in the steel blender steamroll. Crits get insane, doing dmg like maximized empowered nuke, except you can crit multiple times per round.

Casters are in general more efficient as buffers or CC support, and they are quite good at it too.

As for caster Druid, there's no point really since a Cleric with Animal + Weather/Air domains get the pet and the stronger Druid spells like Sirocco, Elemental Swarm etc, and still retain all their benefits (really strong Cleric spells at tier 4+). The ultimate buffer is a Cleric with Community domain, insane +10 buffs to everything for the entire group.

[Zaboleq]

Well I have Tristian in party and I have heard that Ecclesitheurge is the strongest anyway and having druid would be better.
I was also thinking about melee kineticist but don't know how to build him properly.

[Notabot187]

Originally posted by Zaboleq:

Well I have Tristian in party and I have heard that Ecclesitheurge is the strongest anyway and having druid would be better.
I was also thinking about melee kineticist but don't know how to build him properly.

I wouldn't say Tristian is the best or his archetype is, but I think that a pure caster cleric leaves half the class to waste. 3/4 BAB and reasonable proficiencies means they can be good combatants, which Tristian is not.

[Harukage]

Ecclesitheurge with any combination of Animal, Community, Water and Life domains is the best. But sadly that is not Tristian. He is still good support cleric and channelbot, if you need that.

[Zaboleq]

Well I can always respec him thanks to respec mod. I've did that with Amari so I have nothing against respecing Tristian if that makes him more usefull. He can channel a lot of Positive Energy so he is quite good healer but I guess if things will die faster than healer is not needed that much.

Truth is, in my party he work mainly as healer/buffer because he has low AC and now enough Str to hit anything frequently.

[Zaboleq]

Regarding what will happen with Tristian, I'm thinking how to build below 3 characters:

1) Druid - Defender of the True World: I was thinking about adding Monk and maybe Inquisitor (Sacred Huntmaster) but I'm not sure why some people suggest taking Leopard (which can be only medium size) instead of Wolf or Lizard or Smilodon

2)Kineticist/Monk - Not sure if Air is better than Earth on early levels. As I understand, from Air we can get more AC and from Earth we get DR. Maybe instead of Air/Earth take Earth at 1st level and fire later? Monk for Crane Style (same as with Druid)

3)Sylvan Sorcerer - Probably not the best idea for frontliner?

4) Sword Saint with Monk - well found one build on https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-kingmaker/builds/Main_Character#Saint_Vivisector but this one use Falcata which I think I don;t have access in early game until chapter 3?

5) What about Sacred Hunstmaster?