Kineticist expanded element as fire starter?

[Friends with Benedicts]

Im not using the blade, going for ranged blasts and their infusions.
Should I just pick fire again? Read somewhere that fire+fire gives the only Energy Blast that strikes against touch AC? Dunno if I should really go for it as I have high dex.

EDIT: Ok just in case any1 is wondering fire + fire is insane. Although youll need to face some firebrand trolls anything else just incinerates, wtf. Insanely fun class for a first run. Hard start tho...

[Zalie]

Going fire + earth would have been good. At level 13 you can then get deadly earth and that skill is insanely overpowered...

[Friends with Benedicts]

Many places I've checked did recommend going fire earth fire or fire earth earth as you said, but i didn't wanted to take a risk at going a little defensive since i didn't actually needed it at all.

Party comp goes like 3dmg dealers (2 melee 1 ranged), 2 clerics (for heals) and 1 support for buffs (AC and more damage etc...).

I really don't feel threatened in almost any fight. So i just went for fire again

[Frostfeather]

Personally, I strongly prefer Fire/Fire in most cases because it's the only composite energy blast. That means composite touch attacks, like you said, and extremely strong Walls at 11. I believe Wall does full damage only for energy blasts, so again Blue Flame is the only composite that will do full damage. And the AI runs everything right into it.

In Wrath (or Call of the Wild Kingmaker), you can throw a Flame Curse in the group for complete ridiculousness. The combination of Flame Curse and Blue Flame costs little to nothing and can carry your group when you don't want to spend resources. If you don't want to gamble getting a critical miss on your Kinetic Blast attack, use Wall instead, because it can't miss.

Oh and those trolls aren't immune to fire, they just have Protection from Fire up and it's not that difficult to break through it, especially if you have more fire attacks/spells in the group. There are shockingly few fire immune enemies in Kingmaker, and effectively none in Wrath thanks to Ascendant Element.

People talk about Bowling Infusion a lot, but... you can knock enemies down so many other ways. If I couldn't do Fire/Fire, then it'd definitely be Electric for Magnetic Infusion, as a potential +4 to hit for others in the group, applied on a touch attack, is pretty op and you can have it early in the game.

[Friends with Benedicts]

Originally posted by night4:

Personally, I strongly prefer Fire/Fire in most cases because it's the only composite energy blast. That means composite touch attacks, like you said, and extremely strong Walls at 11.(...)

Would you advise going fire/fire/fire?

Originally posted by night4:

(...)Oh and those trolls aren't immune to fire, they just have Protection from Fire up and it's not that difficult to break through it, especially if you have more fire attacks/spells in the group. (...)

Wait, so how does that protection actually work? Since I saw it was 96 fire dmg protection, I thought I had to deal more than 96 damage to actually deal any at all, like if I dealt 100, only 4 would go through his resistance.

But does it actually work like a pool of resistance, like extra HP against fire damage?

Originally posted by night4:

(...)People talk about Bowling Infusion a lot, but... you can knock enemies down so many other ways. (...)

Yeah, my Kineticist's role is damage dealer. I have no reason to give ultility to him, nor I wish to spread it's damages because, as you said, few things are fire immune and there are other party members to deal with these specific situations.

[Archon]

its like the spell protection from energy or whatever. The lower level one blocks 10 damage per instance and wears off after it has blocked 100 damage. The immunity one which the trolls have, works similarly except it just blocks up to (I believe) 100 damage.

a 50 damage fireball hits the first case for 40 damage, and it takes two 50 damage fireballs just to break the fire 'immunity' that the trolls have (but that's just a waste of spellcasts). Certain creatures have true immunities though like undead with cold, wisps with electric, etc. Or at least they should.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Friends with Benedicts:

Would you advise going fire/fire/fire?

You can't, unfortunately. I probably would if you could, lol.

So for the third element, you'd want to enable Deadly Earth or Cloud eventually. Which would mean Earth or Water (physical, not cold), respectively. They're both good, so this is more a matter of personal preference.

Originally posted by Friends with Benedicts:

But does it actually work like a pool of resistance, like extra HP against fire damage?

Yeah basically it's that, and once it's gone it's gone, like the other person said.

It's not usually efficient to get through it with Fire damage. I was just saying if you have a Fire/Fire Kineticist, you could get through it more easily than normal. I run caster and energy damage-heavy groups, so I often do just punch through it with Fire.

[Friends with Benedicts]

I see guys, ty very much.

I can confirm, just slapped a branded troll in its face with a 126 empowered fire blast to it's face and he took 30 of it.

[Samseng Yik]

Originally posted by night4:

Personally, I strongly prefer Fire/Fire in most cases because it's the only composite energy blast. That means composite touch attacks, like you said, and extremely strong Walls at 11. I believe Wall does full damage only for energy blasts, so again Blue Flame is the only composite that will do full damage. And the AI runs everything right into it.

In Wrath (or Call of the Wild Kingmaker), you can throw a Flame Curse in the group for complete ridiculousness. The combination of Flame Curse and Blue Flame costs little to nothing and can carry your group when you don't want to spend resources. If you don't want to gamble getting a critical miss on your Kinetic Blast attack, use Wall instead, because it can't miss.

Oh and those trolls aren't immune to fire, they just have Protection from Fire up and it's not that difficult to break through it, especially if you have more fire attacks/spells in the group. There are shockingly few fire immune enemies in Kingmaker, and effectively none in Wrath thanks to Ascendant Element.

People talk about Bowling Infusion a lot, but... you can knock enemies down so many other ways. If I couldn't do Fire/Fire, then it'd definitely be Electric for Magnetic Infusion, as a potential +4 to hit for others in the group, applied on a touch attack, is pretty op and you can have it early in the game.

Just want to ask, energy will need check Spell Resist, is that worth ?

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Samseng Yik:

Just want to ask, energy will need check Spell Resist, is that worth ?

I think it's absolutely worth it. For one, most enemies in Kingmaker have low/no Spell Resistance. For another, Kineticists are not Feat starved; they can easily afford to take Spell Penetration Feats (or better yet, Allied Spellcaster, if you have others with it).

And even if you don't invest in any Spell Penetration, there's always Pure-Flame Infusion for the late game... though I wouldn't recommend it as it's much more efficient to just have Spell Penetration and use your Burn on Metakinesis and/or Wall. Or just use whatever your level 15 element choice is - ideally a physical one - or use Deadly Earth/Cloud.

Wrath can be slightly different, as more enemies have significant SR earlier. But I just take Allied Spellcaster on the whole group early in Wrath and it takes care of all Spell Penetration needs for the whole group for at least half the game. And it's a bit niche, but in both games, you could also rely on a class with Tactician to give the group Allied Spellcaster on boss fights. It's not ideal, but it does work well in some groups to give your casters and Kineticist the boost they need on occasional high SR enemies.

[Flip]

Sorry to Necro but very interested in Fire Kinetecist but don't really understand the class. Is there a guide for Stat and feats to take for Fire/Fire? I ask because all the guides I see mention earth as well.

[heskyttberg]

They mention it because if you intend to try solo or duo, even full party on like unfair.
You will want, fire/earth/water. They earth give the deadly earth and trip and bowling infusion.
Water gives you cloud and cold damage because of immunities and on anything lower then unfair it dosen't relly matter much, just do what you feel is nice an do a respec if it went wrong.

On unfair follow the guide or you will get frustrated a lot.
Also on unfair I suggest going with a 2 man party, Jaethal as kineticist too and only xp for active members. This will help you until level 7 when you actually can start to kill stuff.

[Flip]

What I was looking for was a Fire/Fire. Not playing on unfair, just standard but there are no guides I can find with Fire/Fire. With ascendant element I am not worried about fire resistance even though the start might be rough.

[Friends with Benedicts]

Originally posted by Flip:

Sorry to Necro but very interested in Fire Kinetecist but don't really understand the class. Is there a guide for Stat and feats to take for Fire/Fire? I ask because all the guides I see mention earth as well.

Kineticists are really feat economic. You dont need much for them to shine, although they only get really strong after lvl 7. The initial demanded feats are precise shot and point blank if you're going ranged, and then weapon focus on kinetic blast. Stats are usually greatly focused on con and dex. Dump int and str but let wisdom at a good rate for will defense. I also dumped charisma. So its a really strong class.

For infusions at early pick fan of flames then burning infusion, then dazzling (For ranged).

Unfortunately i did not find a guide at the internet and if you're not playing on unfair i think what i gave you above is enough for your start. From there the rest will be easier to choose. Remeber to stack your AC as your kineticst can acquire ridiculous levels of AC since his blast is not considered spell or arcane. Although heavier armor will give you less movement speed so its really a matter of choice.

[Flip]

Originally posted by Friends with Benedicts:

Originally posted by Flip:

Sorry to Necro but very interested in Fire Kinetecist but don't really understand the class. Is there a guide for Stat and feats to take for Fire/Fire? I ask because all the guides I see mention earth as well.

Kineticists are really feat economic. You dont need much for them to shine, although they only get really strong after lvl 7. The initial demanded feats are precise shot and point blank if you're going ranged, and then weapon focus on kinetic blast. Stats are usually greatly focused on con and dex. Dump int and str but let wisdom at a good rate for will defense. I also dumped charisma. So its a really strong class.

For infusions at early pick fan of flames then burning infusion, then dazzling (For ranged).

Unfortunately i did not find a guide at the internet and if you're not playing on unfair i think what i gave you above is enough for your start. From there the rest will be easier to choose. Remeber to stack your AC as your kineticst can acquire ridiculous levels of AC since his blast is not considered spell or arcane. Although heavier armor will give you less movement speed so its really a matter of choice.

Thanks for the advice! What do the main stats affect? I get the CON is related to Burn, the more Burn you accumulate the more it lowers your CON? But what will Dex affect on a ranged fire focus character apart from improved chance to hit on ranged touch AC? Is there any stat that improves damage?

A lot of guides pump up Charisma as well, is there a reason for this? Assume it has something to do with Dazzling display and to get the shaken / flat footed status?

For early infusions would reach not be useful as well, especially if use the skill that reduces burn by 1 in exchange for movement?

Appreciate the advice, tried the class for a bit, was fun. Does it benefit from Zippy Magic I wonder or would Trickster be more benefitical? Perhaps a lvl of rogue to eek out some sneak attack dmg?

[Friends with Benedicts]

yep, burn is a negative cap on your overall health. So con helps you not get so squishy after using all those burns. Also, CON is the kineticist's dmg modifier. That's an absurd.

Dex is good for both ranged and melee. With melee you can pick weapon finesse and weapon focus on knietic blade. Some people say having 3 lvls of rogue for that dex to damage modifier but I never tested it out.

I also assume they pump char for that. I believe some spells may have their DC modified by cha, but I went full damage so CON, and I also never found out if CHA actually helps with something on regular kineticist, although I think one of the subclasses does use it.

I used reach on my first run but honestly didn't missed it. My MC has a lot of movement due to basically using light armor, and positioning myself in battle is not hard. Also, have in mind that you'll want your burn to be equal 1/2 your level, so a lvl 8 kineticist will want a burn at 4, to better enjoy the benefits of burn without overdoing it. So that first burn you'll launch will always be the one that you'll take the heat instead of gathering power for it. Also, I always start the fights with my kineticist, so she's always at the desired range from the start of the fight. Reach is really not that necessary. Burning, Dazzling and fan of flames presented themselves to be much more practical and useful at the early game. But that was my strategy. My kineticist goes head in the front line, although she keeps at firing range so relatively safe, and also have like TONS of armor which helps (I also picked dodge feat).