2hand Sword Saint build

[malkavius77]

So after I'm done with my current playthrough I wanna do a lawful good SS build with elven curve blade because it just fits the kensai aesthetic to me. I wanna do STR cause I have never really liked dps dex builds in any game and I like to hit hard! I was gonna dip 1 level of monk for crane style and eventually crane wing, but I have heard conflicting reports that some people say they do work with 2handers and some say they don't. Whats the verdict? Also is there a certain lvl I should dip in monk or start out as one? Does it really matter?

I really need help choosing which feats to focus on though. Power attack seems good on any 2hander build but not very practical for the early game on a mid BAB class. Cleave line seems to not offer enough especially since I won't be using a reach weapon but could consider it. Intimidate line doesn't seem to synergize well either way.

So essentially what are the most important must haves for a str based 2handed SS? Also aasimar worth picking over the human? Wings seem good but the stat boosts don't seem the best for SS. No tiefling this run.

[Tuidjy]

Strength SS are more satisfying than Dex ones, anyway.

My favorite sword is the longsword (bastard sword in the game) but an elven blade will work fine, I think... The only problem is that there's a dearth of unqiue ones until very, very late game. You could grind your way to a really nice one early via an exploit, but I don't recommend it.

I suggest starting a traditional monk - it will make the introduction easier - better AC, Crane style, flurry of blows, and even a masterwork nunchaku. The only drawback is that you will not get a elven curved blade at level 2, which you do if you start as a sword saint.

The race... I went with the Oni-spawn, for the Strength and Wisdom bonuses. I also decided to focus on the vital strike line, and pursue cleaves. I do not know whether it is a bug or not, but they combine, at least sometimes, to devastating effect.

[InEffect]

If you are partial to save-scum fauchard saint is the best. If not - go falcata and two-hand it. Oversized bastards work fine too.
If you really want ECB - go for it. You'd lose about 500 damage per round top end and would have to switch weapons all the time, but it's not the end of the world.

[Tuidjy]

I'll just elaborate a bit on this.

Originally posted by InEffect:

If you are partial to save-scum fauchard saint is the best.

Because the best fauchards are made by an artisan, and sometimes she delivers early... and sometimes she waits until most of the game is past.

If not - go falcata and two-hand it.

There is an amazing falcata in the Varnhold DLC. If you get it, the Lion Claw is all you need.

Oversized bastards work fine too.

I like them, because you can use both normal and oversized ones, and there is a really great one that is guaranteed... it has its drawbacks, but you can't beat its dice, especially when under the influence of Lead Blades (wand) and Legendary Size (self-cast)

If you really want ECB - go for it. You'd lose about 500 damage per round top end and would have to switch weapons all the time, but it's not the end of the world.

500 damage per round sounds worse than it is. Unless you play at Unfair, you'll have more than enough. I have not finished on Unfair... but I think that even there, it will be fine.

If you enjoy elven stuff, knock yourself out. Elves are effete ponces

[InEffect]

500 damage comes from saint being bonkers to begin with. We can push anywhere from 1000 to 1300 damage depending on weapon choice and some AoO procs. ECB can do around 800-ish even in best case scenario with bane of the living against humans. it's not that bad. You just go down from 2-3 kills per round to 1-2.
Edit. Main issue with ECB would be that it's low crit mult weapon. You kinda want 15-20/X3(X4 with the toggle) for the saint, while oversized bastards just stack dice instead for comparable results. I personally don't like oversized bastard saints that much since it burns through resources too much and without perfect strike it doesn't perform as well. I think oversized bastards are better suited for non-iterative classes like booter and, to a lesser extent, bard.

[malkavius77]

So what feat progression would you do for saint then? Also is human or aasimar the better choice? Don't want to do tiefling. One reason I didn't want to go falcata is it's only up to +3 for uniques though which seems rough. Also how do I go about getting lions claw anyway? Do I play the DLC alone or do I play it in my campaign? Little confused about how it works since I haven't tried it yet.

[malkavius77]

Also the main reason I want ECB is for the looks really. Most weapons feel kind of awkward on a kensai and I used to go katanas in baldurs gate for them but none are available here. I also like the looks of dueling swords but they are pretty crappy if you aren't playing an aldori defender/swordlord I assume?

[Tuidjy]

Originally posted by malkavius77:

So what feat progression would you do for saint then?

I started with Traditional Monk, then Saint all the way.

Also is human or aasimar the better choice?

The Angelkin Assimar gets Charisma as his second racial bonus, which is not very important for a Saint, an ability that's useful at early levels, a light source, and +3 from the Wings feat, which the Saint frankly does not need.

The human gets an extra feat, and 20 extra skill points. I'd say that in the long run, those matter more... but are not critical.

Don't want to do tiefling.

If you don't, you should not.

One reason I didn't want to go falcata is it's only up to +3 for uniques though which seems rough.

You'll have plenty of bonuses to hit after act 2, to the point where you should only miss on a natural One. The critical multiplier and range is great, and that's really important The Saint can easily boost the enchantment, for pretty long periods of time, in the late game.

Also how do I go about getting lions claw anyway? Do I play the DLC alone or do I play it in my campaign? Little confused about how it works since I haven't tried it yet.

You have to finish the DLC, before you reach a certain point in the main campaign and meet the slightly addled goblin merchant with the Varhold loot.

Items only appear if your DLC guys find them. On our blind run, we missed a few things, but we never missed the Lion Claw. I am not sure it is possible to miss it.

Originally posted by malkavius77:

Also the main reason I want ECB is for the looks really. Most weapons feel kind of awkward on a kensai and I used to go katanas in baldurs gate for them but none are available here. I also like the looks of dueling swords but they are pretty crappy if you aren't playing an aldori defender/swordlord I assume?

You do not get the extended critical ranges and multipliers with either, nor the huge hit dice. What you do get is guaranteed +5 uniques with very solid features... and the +5 dueling sword is available very early, if you know a trick.

Looks... that's very subjective. Enjoying the game is what matters, so definitely choose something you like. I'd have to pay me to play someone using star knives, no matter how awesome, statswise, they may be. But some people like how they look, so...

[InEffect]

Cha-based str saint is superior cause he has more saves where it counts and persuasion ramp is one of the most important things in the game, so there's that too. As to race, nothing is better than human for them. You need a lot of feats fast and humans provide.

[malkavius77]

So what makes cha based better? Wisdom seems a lot better for the will saves?

Can you guys tell me what feats are actually good for a SS? All i really know it vital strike line seems a must. and crane wing/riposte?

[Tuidjy]

Originally posted by malkavius77:

So what makes cha based better? Wisdom seems a lot better for the will saves?

There is a spell that temporarily makes Charisma bonuses add to ALL your saving throws. It only works on characters of a specific alignment, but when the spell is on, such characters have very solid throws.

So the question becomes, do you raise Wisdom, for Will saves, or Charisma, for a temporary boots to all saves. I just do both, with a slight preference for Wisdom, because my target oversized bastard sword is supposed to make you take Will saves constantly... and because I wanted to play an lawful neutral Oni-spawn.

For a Lawful Good Assimar with bonuses to Strength and Charisma, or even a human with some decent charisma, Wisdom may be less important, especially if they do not go for Ovinbaane.

Can you guys tell me what feats are actually good for a SS? All i really know it vital strike line seems a must. and crane wing/riposte?

Crane line, vital strike line, some weapon specialization feats, and then you can choose between the Cleave Line or Shatter/Sunder feats.

Frankly, Sword Saints can always use more feats than they actually get. Blind fighting is something I do not like being without, for example.

This is why I would have gone human if I wanted to prioritize effectiveness.

[InEffect]

Originally posted by Tuidjy:

because my target oversized bastard sword is supposed to make you take Will saves constantly... and because I wanted to play an lawful neutral Oni-spawn.

'Supposed' is exactly the correct word there.

Originally posted by malkavius77:

Can you guys tell me what feats are actually good for a SS? All i really know it vital strike line seems a must. and crane wing/riposte?

My builds are on GoG and neoseeker. Not hard to find.

[malkavius77]

My main thing is I don't wanna run a lawful good character. It's boring as hell would lawful evil work alright?

[malkavius77]

Also I noticed your build uses the intimidating feats is that a lot better than vital strike build?

[InEffect]

Originally posted by malkavius77:

My main thing is I don't wanna run a lawful good character. It's boring as hell would lawful evil work alright?

Not with the cha route, but you can always do 7Cha and will and still pass all persuasion if you stack enough items, buffs, and consumables. As to LE... It'd cost you anywhere from 3 to 4AC by armag, depending on if you luck out to get censor robes. LN costs you 2AC, but those robes are a bit later, so that's a loss there as well.
Honestly, metagame LG plays like LE should've been. I pretty much just ignore alignment wholesale and if I ever dip below I just buy an atonement scroll, which pretty much never happens cause being nice to companions is equal to demon worship somehow. Alignment in general is a pretty terrible system that gets homebrewed or ignored at the table. I've yet to see any group that actually tracks it apart from 'this is an action that will shift your alignment to X' instances.

Originally posted by malkavius77:

Also I noticed your build uses the intimidating feats is that a lot better than vital strike build?

Depends if you wanna make fun screenshots or actually do more damage overall. Shatter is pretty much a must on most any phys attacker. If I really wanted GVS I'd probably toss crane wing/riposte and accomplished is a luxury anyways, so there's your GVS if you really want it, but since you are going ECB it's a waste of time on those.

[Tuidjy]

Originally posted by InEffect:

Originally posted by malkavius77:

Also I noticed your build uses the intimidating feats is that a lot better than vital strike build?

Depends if you wanna make fun screenshots or actually do more damage overall.

I do not do screenshots, but I admit that I enjoy seeing 1000+ on some hits. It's for my own amusement - I would not argue that cleaving half a dozen enemies in one round with greater vital strike is the most effective way of playing... but I, personally, enjoy it when it happen.

This said, the combination between a high Persuasion (Intimidate) frightener, and someone with Shatter Defenses is devastating. I just leave the job to someone else, and (unsuccessfully) try to challenge my kineticist for the title Most Ludicrous Damage Dealer.