Being a Dragon - Dragon Disciple vs. Sorcerer

[Avatar of Frost]

So I really want to have one of my characters in this game be a dragon. I saw there was a prestige class, Dragon Disciple, that builds on top of the sorcerer draconic bloodline. I figured, perfect, I'll go 10 levels in sorc and then 10 levels in DD. Well I'm level 13 now, but I still can't transform into a dragon. It says I gained the bloodline power from my sorcerer to use Dragonkind 1, but I see no way to transform. If you go dragon disciple do you have to wait longer to transform? Also, it seems DD only goes to Dragonkind 2 but Sorcerer goes to 3? Is Dragon Disciple even worth getting then? Would just staying in the sorc class w/out crossing into prestige be better for being a dragon?

[Kurosu]

Dragon disciple is only worth until level 4. I suggest you go 16 levels on Sorcerer and 4 on DD. If you are lawfull, consider replacing 1 sorcerer level for Scaled Fist monk since it seems you are interested in going dragon mode up close.

In order to become a dragon , I think you need to be able to cast level 6 spells first.

[Avatar of Frost]

Originally posted by Kurosu:

Dragon disciple is only worth until level 4. I suggest you go 16 levels on Sorcerer and 4 on DD. If you are lawfull, consider replacing 1 sorcerer level for Scaled Fist monk since it seems you are interested in going dragon mode up close.

If I go less than 17 sorc can I still gain access to Dragonkind 3? And yes, I was looking at a strength-based up close dragon attacker.

[Kurosu]

Originally posted by Avatar of Frost:

Originally posted by Kurosu:

Dragon disciple is only worth until level 4. I suggest you go 16 levels on Sorcerer and 4 on DD. If you are lawfull, consider replacing 1 sorcerer level for Scaled Fist monk since it seems you are interested in going dragon mode up close.

If I go less than 17 sorc can I still gain access to Dragonkind 3? And yes, I was looking at a strength-based up close dragon attacker.

I believe so, if I remember correctly the 4th level of DD gives extra Strength and Natural armor. But I will need to launch the game to verify for sure.

The build you are going for can definately work, I am planning to do a similar one on my upcomingLE character after I make sure that the game is at a stable state. I am to afraid to start a new playthrough atm

[InEffect]

You want pretty much a melee sorc for it. SF1/Sorc5/DD4/EK10 since as a melee sorc you've little use for level9 spells. Now problem is just grabbing a vanquisher while at it is far better than a janky dragonform and doesn't take forever to get. I wouldn't learn it even if I were to use it, since there is a dragonform III greataxe. At least that way 'become worse at combat, the spell' doesn't cost anything.

[Diomedes]

I prefer Scaled Fist/Sorc/DD build.. (you could throw in paladin, but I don't like paladin for RP reasons)..
With that you can go fists.. at least 5 levels into scaled fist means you can get a technique like trip...
So you can two trip attempts between the bite and the monk technique.. You should remain unarmed imo.. Because the mighty fist amulets works for both unarmed AND dragon attacks..
Your Attack bonus remains good due to strength offsetting any lower progression due to how high your strength gets.. I prefer crane style because I think AC is infinitely better than the dragon style damage increase when you do some crazy damage already.. Between the shield spell, blur, mirror, barkskin buff, high cha.. Your going to have one of the highest ac's in the group.
Worried about fists not doing enough damage due to lower monk levels? Between your strength and self buffs like enlarge self, giving fists 2d6, it's more than enough.
Than add in the fact you get a dragon bite each round on top of your flurry, that does 3d6 (1d6 dragon element, 1d6 cold from wolf cloak+ a trip) + 16 or more damage..
SO basically you get a powerful monk that has high ac, does tons of damage, constantly trips, able to cast a good amount of self buff spells, and can turn into a dragon..
DD levels stack with sorcerer levels with dragon abilities.. Meaning you will get dragon form 3 if you add a few more levels of sorcerer as if you were going straight sorcerer.

[ShadowninjaHD]

Just to throw that in here in the build discussion: Transform dragon = Ability. Not the spell that you can learn that does the same thing and has the same name. Check your ability tab, it should already be there since a long time.

[Sephiroth]

@OP I it should be under your middle tab. It worked for me last time I played it. Was it in the spell book...or the middle tab.. ah well its in one of those 2 places bro. I think its called the "A" tab in the middle where your abilties are. You will see "defensive fighting" in that same tab.

Originally posted by Kurosu:

Dragon disciple is only worth until level 4. I suggest you go 16 levels on Sorcerer and 4 on DD. If you are lawfull, consider replacing 1 sorcerer level for Scaled Fist monk since it seems you are interested in going dragon mode up close.

In order to become a dragon , I think you need to be able to cast level 6 spells first.

False.(I think people need to get out of that train of though there are many fun creative builds).

LOL just for fk's sake I wanted to make a build with max intelligence. I put 1 level into sorceror 1 into wiz, 8 into DD, then 2 in Alc. and another 8 into wiz. (47 intelligence). -->20 base-5 levels-2 DD-8 staff-6 head piece-2 bokken pot- 4 alc. It be cool if I could find some boons or something to get to 50.

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Avatar of Frost:

So I really want to have one of my characters in this game be a dragon. I saw there was a prestige class, Dragon Disciple, that builds on top of the sorcerer draconic bloodline. I figured, perfect, I'll go 10 levels in sorc and then 10 levels in DD. Well I'm level 13 now, but I still can't transform into a dragon. It says I gained the bloodline power from my sorcerer to use Dragonkind 1, but I see no way to transform. If you go dragon disciple do you have to wait longer to transform? Also, it seems DD only goes to Dragonkind 2 but Sorcerer goes to 3? Is Dragon Disciple even worth getting then? Would just staying in the sorc class w/out crossing into prestige be better for being a dragon?

Oh also the DD class itself does not give you the ability to transform at least when you look at the progresson chart. Its the sorcerors bloodline that does give it to you. (like you said). Which means if you wanted you could still get them for free without becoming a DD.

But you need to be a dragon bloodline sorceror to be a DD... which means you will always get the ability to transform. You should get all 3 transformations when by the time you hit level 18 or 19. Because at 18 or 19 you get dragon kind 3.

[Tuidjy]

I think that the top contenders for melee sorcerer builds are:
1) Scaled Fist / Sorcerer 5 / Dragon Disciple 4 / Eldritch Knight 10
2) Sorcerer 6 / Dragon Disciple 4 / Eldritch Knight 10

The main difference is that the first build has massively higher AC and easier access to Crane Style, while the second build has level 9 spells, some of which are actually useful for self-buffing: Fiery Body, Communal Mind Blank, and Heroic Invocation, for example.

Which one you take probably depends on the rest of your party, and your difficulty. At Challenging difficulty, you may not need the extra AC from the Scaled Fist level. At insane difficulty you may.

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By the way, I do not know whether it has been said yet in very simple terms:

Dragon Disciple levels count as full levels for your dragon bloodline progression.

[InEffect]

if you really want to do full caster&dragonforms you are better off with sorc15/SF1/DD4, just would have to toss transform on yourself while at it.

Also, you absolutely have to drag druid with you if you are going any non-druid shifter/unarmed or your damage will be truly horrendous.

Level9 Spells are actually pretty meh for melee. Fiery body doesn't do much, Heroic is a nice QoL, but is hardly a must and mind blank you don't need on everyone either. You will have like +35will saves with grace on a sorc.