stealth in combat?

[Emphasized]

So, i have to admit i never rlly understood what the stealth mechaninc is for in combat, seen as enemies seem to spot you when you get close anyways. Im currently playing as a rogue-ish vivi, am i doing it wrong when im not using stealth? and if sso, what kind of situations do i use it in?

[bkgamingacc]

If people are observing you, you can't use Stealth. You need hide in plain sight feat for that which isnt ingame. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth. Even so your Stealth check is opposed by the Perception check of anyone who might notice you. Wearing armor has stealth penalty. When you start your turn using Stealth, you can leave cover or concealment and remain unobserved as long as you succeed at a Stealth check and end your turn in cover or concealment. Your Stealth immediately ends after you make an attack roll, whether or not the attack is successful.

Even with invisibility you have to make stealth checks to be unnoticed.
If you fail stealth check while invisible you can be attacked but you are considered to have concealment bonus.
Without invisibility to boost your stealth or Hide in plain sight i find stealth pretty useless. All enemies seem to have godly perception scores.

[wendigo211]

The only things I've found stealth useful for are disarming traps that are close to enemies before combat starts and camouflaging your camp site. With the former, you'll want to use invisibility on top of your stealth skill and have some luck because of the high perception scores the enemies have.

[Kreuz]

since this game handles sneak attacks differently than the tabletop-Pathfinder it has no use in combat and you wont lose anything with your rogue when not using it at the start of combat

would it handle it like the TTRPG it'd be in your interest to start combat stealthed to get in a precious sneak attack.
but like i said above, you dont have to and therefore dont need to mind it in regards of combat to get use out of your sneak attacks

that said, using a potion of invisibilty to get stealthed during combat after your rogue gets focused by enemies helps redirecting focus of said enemies, if you dont get immediately noticed. so that could help sometimes, but it's rather more important for your squishy backline

[kaymarciy]

Originally posted by bkgamingacc:

If people are observing you, you can't use Stealth. You need hide in plain sight feat for that which isnt ingame.

Ranger's Camouflage ability gives Hide in Plain Sight though.

[whitegoat]

In TTRPG is useless as well for combat, flat footed enemies get sneak attacked so the only thing you need is high Initiative.

[Lminith]

Originally posted by Emphasized:

So, i have to admit i never rlly understood what the stealth mechaninc is for in combat, seen as enemies seem to spot you when you get close anyways. Im currently playing as a rogue-ish vivi, am i doing it wrong when im not using stealth? and if sso, what kind of situations do i use it in?

Your Stealth vs enemy Perception. The closer you are the easier it is to get detected and armor and shield penalties hinder stealth.
You can't get into normal stealth when you're on their LoS. Magical means work though.
Magical invisibility is like +20 Stealth and even if they spot you you're treated with concealment before you take offensive actions.

For that character the idea is to be stealthy and Sneak Attack for a 1 hit kill, thinning opposition. But in PF:KM it doesn't matter, so it's mostly to scout ahead.
Although if you want to go for scouting purposes Invisibility spell (Lv2) is the way to go, allowing you to keep invi for a long time on max movement, while Vanish (Lv1) is the cheaper combat variant.

[Bloodartist]

You don't need stealth to get sneak attack though, rogues can flank and that is enough. Also, Im not sure if the other methods work, but probably.

"The rogue’s attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. "

[heskyttberg]

When it come to sneaking close for traps or something the stealth check is only done once in this game. Just like with finding traps and opening locked containers.

Checks are done again if you load a save. This can be observed in mansion with the two guys after rubble.

If you manage to get linzi stealthed down into the corner she can stand there in sealth forver there are no more checks, unless you save and load.

When you get too close I think they see you no matter what your stealth is unless you would have that hide in plain sight as BG had.

[mbradtke]

can someone explain how his works in combat more in detail?
so enemies roll a stealth check once as soon as someone approaches them at medium range? and everyone then rolls a perception check? i guess it works the same for the other side
is this roll only done once or several times? and if several times (f.e once a round) does it depend on the range between the stealther and the perceptioner? i've noticed some enemies sit in stealth, waiting for someone to get really close to them and then they start with suprise round and attack? but it seems they dont attack on their own until combat has started...

[Smokey]

Stealth, valid in combat for flanking bonus effect ?

Just wondering, because hiding/stealthing in combat is not really an option. And i have seen my arrows make "stealth" bonus. Just wanted to know if i assume correct ?

[mbradtke]

when enemy doesnt spot you, you should be able to do a sneak attack when u are still stealthed or/and invisible

[Doombringer]

Greater Invisibility = spam sneak attacks.
An ally in melee with your target = spam sneak attacks.
Using a longbow from beyond enemy sight range = sneak attacks lol.
It is really easy to enable sneak attacks in this game.

If you walk into an area and see spam perception checks go off, it is a warning there are stealth/invisible enemies there.
Cast Glitterdust or See Invisibility or something (if your perception rolls fail).

[forkofspite]

Originally posted by Doombringer:

If you walk into an area and see spam perception checks go off,

wrong game - that doesn't happen in Kingmaker

[Doombringer]

I remember it happening in the wererat cave...

[forkofspite]

The Kingmaker log does not note missed perception checks. The Wrath log does.