what feats are good on a sword and board fighter?

[MΛƬΉΣΛƧ]

im leveling a strenght based sword and board human fighter the most vannila dnd experience possible

so whith the sea of feats avalable i wanted to know what are considered "good" or "must have" or "meta" feats

any input would be much apriciated

also whats up with cleave? from what ive read in forums it was suposedly lame, yet acording to its description and the few tests ive done it doesnt seem to have much downsides appart from -2ac, was it changed at some point?

[Mork]

The most have as soon as possible

Dodge + imp unarmed strike + crane style + mobility skill 3pts = +5ac when fighting defensively
team feat Outflank + combat reflex when you have more then 12 dex

Next in no specific order

shake it off, shield wall = the best team feats
Power attack
weapon focus, specialization, .... longsword(gonna need crafting but the best at late game)
imp. crit, critical focus + blinding* critical
toughness, iron will, imp iron will
shield focus, greater shield focus, heavy armor focus
combat expertise
....
probably forgetting some good one

Cleave is very good with enlarge spell type + a 6ft reach weapon

[Aria Athena]

Here are 2 more ideas:

You could also go for Dazzling Display and then Shatter Defense. There are 3 feats that help with Dazzling Display succeeding: Persuasive, Skill Focus (Persuasion) and Intimidating Prowess.

Another option is Shield Bash, Two Weapon Fighting, Shield Master. This enables you to also use your shield as a weapon, but doesn't work with Tower Shields.


I would also say that at least Blind Fight is a must in this game

[MΛƬΉΣΛƧ]

Originally posted by Mork:

The most have as soon as possible

Dodge + imp unarmed strike + crane style + mobility skill 3pts = +5ac when fighting defensively
team feat Outflank + combat reflex when you have more then 12 dex

Next in no specific order

shake it off, shield wall = the best team feats
Power attack
weapon focus, specialization, .... longsword(gonna need crafting but the best at late game)
imp. crit, critical focus + blinding* critical
toughness, iron will, imp iron will
shield focus, greater shield focus, heavy armor focus
combat expertise
....
probably forgetting some good one

Cleave is very good with enlarge spell type + a 6ft reach weapon

How does vital strike and hammer the gap work?

Are those feats any good?

[Mork]

Originally posted by Lord_Matheas:

How does vital strike and hammer the gap work?

Are those feats any good?

Vital strike is really good with only a few specific class and ability like with the magus sword saint. The main issue with it is that it take a full action, meaning you can only do 1 vital strike par round and nothing else.

For hammer the gap, i have never taken it so i don't really know. It might be 'ok'?

[MΛƬΉΣΛƧ]

Originally posted by Mork:

Originally posted by Lord_Matheas:

How does vital strike and hammer the gap work?

Are those feats any good?

Vital strike is really good with only a few specific class and ability like with the magus sword saint. The main issue with it is that it take a full action, meaning you can only do 1 vital strike par round and nothing else.

For hammer the gap, i have never taken it so i don't really know. It might be 'ok'?

Isnt one attack per round ussualy the only thing a fighter can do?

[Mork]

Originally posted by Lord_Matheas:

Isnt one attack per round ussualy the only thing a fighter can do?

At low level yes, every class get a extra attack at base attack 6,11 and 16. For example a fighters lvl 16(BAB16) will do 4 attacks/round, 5 with haste.

[MΛƬΉΣΛƧ]

Originally posted by Mork:

Originally posted by Lord_Matheas:

Isnt one attack per round ussualy the only thing a fighter can do?

At low level yes, he get a extra attack at base attack 6,11 and 16. For example a fighters lvl 16 will do 4 attacks/round, 5 with haste.

Wait what for real? Didnt know that one, sudenly my fighter seems much cooler than before

[Mork]

Originally posted by Lord_Matheas:

Originally posted by Mork:

At low level yes, he get a extra attack at base attack 6,11 and 16. For example a fighters lvl 16 will do 4 attacks/round, 5 with haste.

Wait what for real? Didnt know that one, sudenly my fighter seems much cooler than before

Every class get extra attack at those base attack bonus but not all them get 1 BAB at each level.

[Aria Athena]

Originally posted by Lord_Matheas:

Wait what for real? Didnt know that one, sudenly my fighter seems much cooler than before

Go dual wield or two bladed sword and you can attack a silly amount of times each round, but of course not all of them will be very accurate. At lv 16 you will get like 8 + 2 from feats +1 from Haste.

Hammer the Gap requires consecutive hits on the same turn. If you can land enough hits for the feat to make a difference, it still wont because the enemy will probably be dead from those hits anyway.

[MΛƬΉΣΛƧ]

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

Originally posted by Lord_Matheas:

Wait what for real? Didnt know that one, sudenly my fighter seems much cooler than before

Go dual wield or two bladed sword and you can attack a silly amount of times each round, but of course not all of them will be very accurate. At lv 16 you will get like 8 + 2 from feats +1 from Haste.

Hammer the Gap requires consecutive hits on the same turn. If you can land enough hits for the feat to make a difference, it still wont because the enemy will probably be dead from those hits anyway.

is fighter or aldori defender the go to class if you want to dual wield?

dual wielding was a dex based endeavour right? so i supose dual wielding longswords isnt a valid option

[Aria Athena]

Originally posted by Lord_Matheas:

is fighter or aldori defender the go to class if you want to dual wield?

dual wielding was a dex based endeavour right? so i supose dual wielding longswords isnt a valid option

I have not played Aldori, but I think their are focused on using a single dueling sword, no idea really. Their main thing is that for the Dueling Swords can be used with Weapon Finesse and such. I would say either default Fighter or Ranger, with Fighter being my pick.

You don't want to dual wield Longswords because they are not light weapons. This means even with feats you get a -4 penalty to attack on each weapon instead of the usual -2. You can have a Longsword on your main hand, but the off hand will have to be light and all light weapons have Finesse Wielding. But you can dual wield with Strength. There are double sided weapons, like Two-Bladed Sword and Orc Double Axe, which even though they are 2 handed, they count as dual wielding.


Edit: I now realize you were talking about Aldori Defender and not Aldori Swordlord.

[Swordman_Red]

Originally posted by Lord_Matheas:

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

Go dual wield or two bladed sword and you can attack a silly amount of times each round, but of course not all of them will be very accurate. At lv 16 you will get like 8 + 2 from feats +1 from Haste.

Hammer the Gap requires consecutive hits on the same turn. If you can land enough hits for the feat to make a difference, it still wont because the enemy will probably be dead from those hits anyway.

is fighter or aldori defender the go to class if you want to dual wield?

dual wielding was a dex based endeavour right? so i supose dual wielding longswords isnt a valid option

Go dual wield/shield bash. Killing something with a shield is very satisfying.

[ppaladin123]

Be careful if you go weapon and shield with two-weapon fighting...you take a large penalty to you main weapon attack if you wield a heavy shield for a rather modest amount of damage on your off hand. So you'd want to go with a light shield. Shield mastery kicks in at level 11 (or 6 if a ranger) and that lets you add the shield's enhancement bonus to the shield bash attack/damage and removes the penalty on the off hand attack but NOT on the main hand attack (so you can't switch to heavy shield then). There are traits in the tabletop game that let you count heavy shields as light and add to shield bash damage but they aren't present in Kingmaker unfortunately.

It's an awesome fighting style in theory (Its my favorite in Dragon Age Origins) but it has never been strong in Pathfinder.

[ppaladin123]

Originally posted by Lord_Matheas:

Originally posted by Mork:

At low level yes, he get a extra attack at base attack 6,11 and 16. For example a fighters lvl 16 will do 4 attacks/round, 5 with haste.

Wait what for real? Didnt know that one, sudenly my fighter seems much cooler than before

It's a lot easier to see if you play with the turn-based mod. It's also why haste and divine power are such great spells: they add an extra attack at your highest attack bonus per round.

[ppaladin123]

Originally posted by Mork:

The most have as soon as possible

Dodge + imp unarmed strike + crane style + mobility skill 3pts = +5ac when fighting defensively
team feat Outflank + combat reflex when you have more then 12 dex

Next in no specific order

shake it off, shield wall = the best team feats
Power attack
weapon focus, specialization, .... longsword(gonna need crafting but the best at late game)
imp. crit, critical focus + blinding* critical
toughness, iron will, imp iron will
shield focus, greater shield focus, heavy armor focus
combat expertise
....
probably forgetting some good one

Cleave is very good with enlarge spell type + a 6ft reach weapon

A sword and board fight isn't going to do much damage so I think in addition to the feats to toughen them up (e.g. shield focus, iron will) they might go either the dazzling display/shatter defenses/dreadful carnage route or go with combat expertise/(improved) trip or dirty trick/ greater trip/dirty trick.

I like the dirty trick line for blinding enemies. Either that or tripping makes you "stickier" and will make the primary damage dealers very happy.