is this game worth playing?

[Raviel]

i just started but so far it seems like garbage, all low spells require attack to hit?! wtf?!

enemies on lvl 2 areas immune to all damage, you get alchemist flame to deal with them and it's barelly enough to even kill half of those. or that ghost with 35 AC on lvl 2 area?!?!? failing a check immidiate lose of 1/2 hp of all party. most content seems missable so you need a freaking guide 24/7??!

[Immortal Reaver]

All non-buff spells require some kind of roll, Enemies roll Saves againts CC, Damage spells rolls againts Touch AC(miss=no dmg) or Saves(miss= most do 1/2 dmg). Other than Magic Missile that hits always (but does not damage swarms, and people with Shield Spell), but it is more usefull from 5th level onwards.

All low level damage spells are garbage early, use only CC or Buff spells.

Any Elemental damage hits swarms, if you cannot defeat them avoid them.

"Ghost with 35AC in lvl 3-5 area" - optional boss, to challenge skilled players. Resist Electricity on Jaethal(undead elf) makes it completly easy, but takes a lot of time, (another strategy is to use Glitterdust spell that blinds him, which reduces his AC by a lot).

Failing check - you mean your party fell of tree/cliff, yeah that hurts.

Missable content - yeah you can miss most companions, other than Companions and Main Quests you can do everything later.

[Dixon Sider]

The game is only not worth playing if you lack the resolve to deal with its tactical depth. You don't need a guide. You can beat the game blind on unfair.

[Immortal Reaver]

Originally posted by Dixon Sider:

The game is only not worth playing if you lack the resolve to deal with its tactical depth. You don't need a guide. You can beat the game blind on unfair.

If you properly read everything in game (all spell and ability descriptions, every dialoge etc.) and take it seriously, then I would also say it is also possible.

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

there are better D&D-likes.

Name 1

[Silvaren]

I would say it's uneven experience. Combat is great though many encounters feels like filler type-trash mob battles. Character progression is great because Pathfinder is similar to D&D 3.5 and in some way even better. Roleplay is average - often there is very limited option in terms of alignment but C&C is quite good. Conversations work as exposition most of the time. Kingdom management can be fun but it's simple and works as time sink (seriously, I'm like 190h in my campaign and I'm in the middle of chapter V - of eight?). Quests structure is weak, mostly linear with few choices at the end. There are some exceptions ofcourse - some from the main storyline but other cRPG did it better (eg. Pillars of Eternity 1&2, Tyranny, Torment: Tides of Numenera, Wasteland 2). Exploration can be boring because of recycled areas in the same manner as in Dragon Age 2. Travel mechanic is bad with these slow animation, work as time sink along with obligatory rest because of the fatigue. The world isn't as open as it seems. Player is locked in one region until the main story develop to open adjacent region and then another one. It feels like forced artificial barier. This game is too repetetive because of its scale. Music is awesome, voices are quite good, graphics look pretty but some assets are overused. Too bad it's full 3D instead of isometric projection made from prerendered areas like in Pillars, Tyranny, Numenera or old Infinity Engine games. In Kingmaker all areas look the same while in true isometric games everything was distinct.

I like the game, but mostly for combat and ruleset. I'm not a fan of Golarion setting and I'm not so interested by the story or all these little sidequests. Some pieces are very good (chapter III, some companions quests, maybe 3 other sidequests), but there is lots of average or minigless content. And I miss crafting. Just like in old gold box games or even Temple of Elemental Evil Kingmaker has huge variety of weapons but I can't pick feats for creating magic equipment so it's hard to find awesome weapon which work with the weapon feats my characters picked. But I must say Kingmaker has a lots of cool items for caster classes.

Edit:
I finished both Baldur's Gate 20-30 times, Icewind Dale about 20 times even first NWN like 10 times before any expansion was made for that game but seriously, Kingmaker is so overscaled and repetetive in core gameplay (kingdome management, traveling) that I don't think I would like to play this game second time. This game could be easily 50h experience in old fashion way as pure cRPG with kingmaker "flavour" and would be great. But it was stretched for kickstarter goals against rather limited budget and it feels.

[dulany67]

Yes it is.

[InEffect]

Seems like you were looking for an action game and got a rpg instead. Path of exile, diablo, skyrim and other action/arcade games would fit your tastes better.

[Osteichthyes]

This game is...quite divisive. It has elements where it shines, but many aspects that really needed more work/testing (not going to list as many of the things are spoilers). Be warned it is VERY long (100+ hours easily), and most of it is travelling/loading screens/pointlessly long cutscenes.

There are a lot of ways to build characters, and many ways that result in characters that fall very far below the high power curve. As people say, it can be done, but doesn't mean you will find it fun. You might, you might not.

Mostly, this game is horribly overscoped, and it really showed on launch with an absurd amount of bugs that were gamebreaking. I find that it has a lot in it, but there is little depth to any of it.

Don't feel bad if you hate it, if you aren't having fun then there is no need to try and force your way through it. I'm at 500 hours and to be fair...I don't really like it and I don't recommend it. I just want to complete the game so maybe I can get something out of all the time I sunk into it (sunk cost fallacy I know). It just lacks polish in nearly every area save for music, art, and voice acting.

The early levels are definitely more rough than the later (until the final dungeon), but yeah, this is basically designed for people who are very familiar with 3.5 edition DnD and have way more time than they should on their hands.

[thorsson64]

It does feel stretched, but even so, it's still one of the better Fantsay CRPGs - well, if you make liberal use of Mods anyway (and I would always recommend this with every game after the first play through at least). And I say this as someone who has played pretty much every major - and many minor - Fantasy CRPG since computers were invented.

The world isn't that that open, but open is overrated. It would just give inexperienced players more opportunities to get their butts kicked. This treads a middle line, and I don't feel that it suffers because of that decision. Travel is made simpler with Teleport; however, this ought to be flagged a little more obviously, given the difference it makes

Quest structure is not that bad - many do it worse; plus the (lack of a) main quest, which many see as a weakness, I see as quite clever. Firstly, you have something akin to "levels" - a new boss to defeat in each segment. Secondly, you have the underlying theme related to Curses; it's not telegraphed, but why is that seen as a weakness? Surely, it makes for at least one replay if you play it "blind" first time round?

Personally, I hate crafting; it's just a huge timesink. I'd rather have Kingdom Management (and I'm not that keen on KM). The game maybe should fit loot to the players, which would ensure you don't up with awesome weapons of every description - except for those your characters took Feats in. OFC the way around this is to respec (for which a Mod is better than the in-built).

[Tuidjy]

Originally posted by Dixon Sider:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

there are better D&D-likes.

Name 1

Real-time with pause? I do not think there is a better one. The Icewind Dale, Baldur Gate, etc. series were great, but this is a step forward.

Turn-based? Temple of Elemental Evil, once all the community patches are applied. It's much smaller, of course, but quality per amount of content, I'd say Temple packs more fun.

But that is strictly subjective, and after all is said and done, this is my favorite "Roll a D20" game in years. Not for everyone, but certainly for me and my wife.

[InEffect]

ToEE is only playable with temple+ and co8. it's damn horrible as is and was totally unplayable on release. And release was at a time when patching was not as easy as now. And it also has absolutely no challenge if you don't count killing Iuz before whatshisface appears.

[Tuidjy]

Originally posted by InEffect:

ToEE is only playable with temple+ and co8. it's damn horrible as is and was totally unplayable on release. And release was at a time when patching was not as easy as now. And it also has absolutely no challenge if you don't count killing Iuz before whatshisface appears.

I actually finished it twice as released. It had bugs, and a sнiттоп of damn annoyances, but I do not remember game breaking bugs except trying to dual wield two swords which fed off each other, which would place you into an infinite loop.

As for challenge? In a blind run, there were a few times when you could walk into trouble, especially if you did not know, by heart, what tricks specific enemies could pull off.

The same can be said for Kingmaker. The first time we walked on the berserker in the cave near the river bend, we had to reload two or three times, on Challenging. I have been through him four times since, and he never felt like a challenge, despite most of the runs being at more than Challenging.

In this kind of game, forewarned is forearmed.

[InEffect]

In ToEE there just aint much tricky. Unless you can call ignoring all the classes, except wizard and cleric counts as such. No special tactics needed. Just run in and kill everything. Only possible wipe is running into Iuz before he's weakened.

[Tuidjy]

Originally posted by InEffect:

Only possible wipe is running into Iuz before he's weakened.

I think that wandering into the giant (Hill?) on that old battlefield with a level 2 party was a quick way to die. Of course, you had to be blind and deaf to do so. But killing him with a level 2-3 party should count as at least a bit of a challenge, whether you do it by kiting him, nailing him with a crowd control spell, etc.

And there were some minor annoyances where you could be surprised by resistances in the temple. I vaguely remember backing off and running out of spells in a fight against things I cold not properly classify. But I never run into them on subsequent replays, or at least I did not identify them. I may have simply had a party that was better able to exploit whatever weakness they happened to have.

In ToEE there just aint much tricky. Unless you can call ignoring all the classes, except wizard and cleric counts as such. No special tactics needed. Just run in and kill everything.

Positioning the rogue took more care and precision than it takes in Kingmaker.

Fighters with reach weapons could actually be micromanaged into some fancy tricks. OK, minimally fancy tricks, but tricks never the less.

And Druids were fine.

Also, Paladins' Fall from Grace had better mechanics, item crafting (buggy as it was) offered gameplay that Kingmaker lacks, and finally, it was at least a dozen years ago. Kingmaker has little that has not been done before. It does it better in my opinion, but it's all been done.

Temple of Elemental Evil attempted fantasy tactical turn based combat in detail that had not been attempted before, has not been really done well since, and probably would not sell today. Note I said 'attempted' and 'in detail'. There were tons of tiny bugs, unfortunately.

[Silvaren]

Originally posted by Tuidjy:

Fighters with reach weapons could actually be micromanaged into some fancy tricks. OK, minimally fancy tricks, but tricks never the less.

I remember playing fighter with whirlwind attack and reach weapon.

And the crafting worked great. Any weapon enchantable to at least +3 and elemental damage. Creating items which increase stats. Making scrolls and potions. Level cap worked well with those crafting feats because there were experience points to burn out for better items. Imo combat in ToEE was better than it is in Kingmaker.

@OP
Kingmaker may have better character progression than AD&D 2nd games like BG 1 & 2, ID or PT, but design of fights in Kingmaker is worse. P:K has better C&C than most Infinity Engine games while there isn't much of advanture outside main story. P:K feels more like NWN 2 crossed with Icewind Dale but only half of the time because other half of Kingmaker is just meaningless time sink in form of kingdom management and traveling between small copy-paste areas without anything interesting on them. Some trash mobs, some items.

After more than 20 years I must admit that I have more fun with both Pillars of Eternity than P:K or even old Infinity Engine games. Gameplay mechanics are even more complex and rewarding, better itemisation which affect builds in more unique way than old D&D 3.5/Pthf in video games.