Thoughts on Classes: Sorcerer Edition

[New Willinium]

Thoughts on Classes: Sorcerer Edition

So this has been something on my mind for a while now as something that might be fun for this forum and create some good discussion about a subject SO vital to the game itself. . .The classes. We have a LOOOOT of classes in this game, not including the Prestige Classes which will likely just get rolled into one thread, with four variations to each of these classes to build our characters in different ways.


So today's subject? Today's subject is the Pathfinder version of the classic Sorcerer class and it's varying archetypes . The Sorcerer has four basic archetypes: The Base Sorcerer, The Empyreal Sorcerer, Sylvan Sorcerer, and the Sage Sorcerer.


Now let's start with the base Sorcerer shall we? The Base Sorcerer is rather nice in that they get more spells per day then a wizard of the same level at the cost of learning less spells per level. This tends to make them all that much more useful on the average low level gameplay. What makes the Pathfinder Sorcerers standout is that they are gifted with the ability to inherit certain Spells and Feats from Bloodlines. These Include the Dragon Bloodlines, The Fey, Snake, Demon, Devil, Abyssal, Celestial, UNDEAD (BEST), and more each of them giving the Sorcerer unique benefits that they gain all the way to level 20. This alone in my eyes makes them better then the Wizards in my eyes, and can become doubly broken when thrown in with a Aasimer or Tiefling PC.

Next up we have the Empyreal Sorcerer. The Empyreal Sorcerer is someone who is descended from an Empyreal Lord (Think of them as Outsider Demi-Gods and Near Gods) and as such has some unique spells granted to them in this case. Heavenly Fire, Bless, Channel Positive Energy, Flame Strike etcetera. They also cast from their Wisdom scores rather then their Charisma as is normal with a Sorcerer.

Then we have the Sylvan Sorcerer: Where as the Empyreal Sorcerer replaces the Celestial Bloodline the Sylvan Sorcerer replaces the Fey bloodline. What the Sylvan Sorcerer gets that is unique to them is a Animal Companion (always a favorite amongst power gamers and min maxers) as well as some limited druid spells as they level up. They're pretty alright but I am not a fan of the idea of the archetype.

Finally we have the Sage Sorcerer. So hey what happens when you have a Archmage Elminster/Kelborn/Szass Tams in your ancestry? Sometimes that powers reverberates down your bloodline and awakens in you as a Sorcerer Bloodline. This allows the Sorcerer to use their Intellect rather then Charisma for their spells. They get an ability called Arcane Bolt that continues to level up as they do, free Magic Missile, Invisibility, and can add even MORE spells then normal once they get to levels 9, 13, and 17. All in all they are a pretty great Archetype.

Personally I think I would stick with the base Sorcerer so as to pick my OWN bloodline choice, usually Undead or Infernal for flavor and abilities, or just go with the so much better Eldritch Scion class as normal. But honestly despite my grumbling about Sylvan Sorcerer they are all pretty danged good.

So those were the Sorcerer classes and archetypes and I thought that they were all pretty damned good, what about the rest of y'all? What do you think of this class and it's archetypes? Are a fan of one over the other? Do you think this is a good class to multi-class into? What are the positives and downsides of the class, and archetypes, in your opinion? What are the best Bloodlines for the Base Sorcerer? Are the Other Archetypes better then the base Fey, Arcane, and Celestial Bloodlines? If so or not why?

[Eonwe]

Best. Class. Ever.

I'm very partial to the sorcerer class, i love it so much.

Sylvan is really good, sage too. And i personally like the dragon bloodlines to stack those +dmg per dice.

[InEffect]

So.. Um... Sorcs... They like kill things... And um...bzzzt! Yeah! Me smart, Me sOrc!

So. Reality is there are 4 sorc bloodlines:
-Draconic sorc. For gishes. Adds AC and dragonforms, other useful thigns are irrelevent.
-Arcane Sorc. Resident gnome Illusionist. Sage is otherwise better.
-Sage. Makes Wizards cry at nights. 2DC higher than any wizard in existence. Because he can use that profane int staff as well. Gets bonus spells in case wizards didn't get the memo from the get go to add insult to injury.
-Sylvan. Wizard with a pet. Not bad, but mostly relevant in early-game.

Everything else might as well be not there as you will never find anything comparable, mechanically speaking.

[LordSerion]

Originally posted by InEffect:

-Sage. Makes Wizards cry at nights. 2DC higher than any wizard in existence. Because he can use that profane int staff as well. Gets bonus spells in case wizards didn't get the memo from the get go to add insult to injury.

How would you build a Sage Sorc? Sounds like you actually find it worthwhile to play with it.

[InEffect]

something like 7/16/14/19/7/14 human
SF: conj, Spell Specialization, pb/precise, ray focus, dazzling, shatter, GSF conjuratuion, heighten.
The rest is wahtever you like. Can take evo foci for stormbolts. Persuasion focus/decietful/persuasive won't be wasted either.
Wants to stick to pure class for the most part. There is a case to be made to take Vivisectionist at 19 for mutagen and extra 2d6 on rays, but is not mandatory.
Dazzling on a caster is nice anyways. Gives him something better to do than to stand with a thumb up his rear if he has nothing to cast.

[LordSerion]

Conjuration? I thought summons are worthless.

[InEffect]

depends. If you think of those as something that can do damage - yes, they are useless. If you think of those as something that can be oneshotted instead of your team - they are not. Although taking summon feats is mostly whatever. All you need is animate dead past certain point. With spell specialization and lesser extend wand summon I is pretty decent level 2 though.
Main draw of conjuration is heightened stinking clouds not summons.

[1ttffsse]

I do like the hare familiars on the arcane bloodline...I know realistically in game initiative can be cheesed but being flatfooted or sleeping in an ambush as a sorc is no fun.