Thoughts on Classes: Barbarian Edition

[New Willinium]

Thoughts on Classes: Barbarian Edition


So this has been something on my mind for a while now as something that might be fun for this forum and create some good discussion about a subject SO vital to the game itself. . .The classes. We have a LOOOOT of classes in this game, not including the Prestige Classes which will likely just get rolled into one thread, with four variations to each of these classes to build our characters in different ways.


So today's subject? Today's subject is the Pathfinder version of the Barbarian class and it's varying archetypes . The Barbarian has four basic archetypes: The Base Barbarian, The Armored Hulk, The Mad Dog, and the Invulnerable Rager.


Now let's start with the base Barbarian shall we? The Barbarian is the more wild fighter compared to the fighter, focusing more on dealing out damage with it's "Rage Abilities" then focusing on weapon feats as the Fighter would. The Greatest among these, in my opinion at least being the Lethal Stance and the Reckless Stance. The Barbarian has some other nice perks to it as well including greater base movement speed, The Ability to "Rage" which increases the Barbarian's strength and morale scores in battle though it leaves them fatigued after battle. They also get Uncanny Dodge without needing to spend a feat on it which is always nice.

Next up is the Armored Hulk, always my preferred version, which is a Barbarian that wears Heavy Armor without getting slowed down and nativily build upon the advantage AC that Heavy armor gives you.It's a bit boring but it works and it's a cool idea for an archetype even with how simple it is. They sadly lose out on Uncanny Dodge but *shrugs* Heavy armor.

Then we have the Mad Dog, which seems to be the favorite of the archetypes, who is a Barbarian that gains a Animal Companion who they work in tandem with. I recommend the Smilodon or Wolf companion by the by simply because it works great with the Beast Totem Powers as a theme. Their specific archetype feats are REALLY great and I can see why people like this archetype so much.

Finally we have the Invulnerable Rager which. . . hey do you like Raging? Do you like diving into battle and coming out unscathed due to getting Damage Resistance of one kind or another every other level? Well that is the main draw of the Invulnerable Rager. Every other level they gain DR equal to half their Barbarian level. Otherwise they are pretty similar to the base Barbarian exchanging their impenetrable hides out for the Uncanny Dodge feats.


Personally I think I would stick with the Armored Hulk or the Mad Dog class myself.

So those were the Barbarian classes and archetypes and I thought that they were all pretty damned . . . kind of mundane, what about the rest of y'all? What do you think of this class and it's archetypes? Are a fan of one over the other? Do you think this is a good class to multi-class into? What are the positives and downsides of the class, and archetypes, in your opinion? What is the best Animal Companion for the Mad Dog archetype and why? Whether that answer be based off of mechanics, RP/Lore, or otherwise?

[InEffect]

barbarians are garbage because HP tanks are garbage. Only decent archetype is Mad Dog as that one at least gets a pet and barbarians want to sit in the 2nd row and never be in melee anyways.
DR is garbage once you go at least to hard because shaving 10 damage out of 50-100 is nothing.

[haplok]

Well, if you stack Increased Damage Reduction Powers and some DR item, it can be closer to DR/20 at the end, and that's something. Pick 4 Vivi levels and Preserve Organs x 2 to gain 50% Crit and Sneak Resist and you're a decent offtank for at least Challenging, probably even Hard. Not Unfair, though.

Yeah, the Mad Dog probably wins overall. Then Invulnerable Rager IMO, then standard Barbarian (Uncanny Dodge is good.. and there are only 3 ways to get it... apart from a sad late-game robe and level 9 buff spell - though typical Barbarians do not benefit that much). Armored Hulk is the worst. Trades a unique class ability - Uncanny Dodge - for access to heavy armor, which can be gained either by adding a single level dip or by simply picking it as a regular feat.

[InEffect]

I mean even you shaved 50% of damage it's still meh. If you are being hit at all you will die sooner than you'll be able to tell what happened.

[haplok]

On Unfair that is.
Below that, you can Offtank just fine. Just don't try to be the main tank.

My Amiri rarely had trouble surviving and I didn't put her trough any special loops to increase her armor.

[Daidre]

It bugs me a bit that tanking-oriented Archetypes lose one of the best tanking abilities - Uncanny Dodge. Makes Armored Hulk really meh.

I like to build smilodon - focused char from Mad Dog.
3 Sacred Huntmaster/1 Vivi/16 Mad Dog. Fully upgraded Lethal Stance with higher crit multiplier on any weapon is nice, although a bit late.

But Mad Dog for such build can be replaced with vanilla Ranger, and I still on fence about what is better - Rage or Favored Enemy + Style (for cheap Shatter Defenses)

My lategame Amiri survival plan is all about leather armor with Improved invis after being hit. Extra funny with Vicious weapon that turns it into perma-invis.

[InEffect]

Even on hard barb without reach will spend more time on the floor than actually fighting. And even if you dedicate a lot of needless time to micro, it's still gonna be a loss in dps for all that running around. Best bet is just sitting somewhere in the 2nd row in relative safety and if something hits you it won't be as big of an alpha strike as it an be.

[InEffect]

Originally posted by Daidre:

I like to build smilodon - focused char from Mad Dog.

even for a DPS pet leopard would be objectively better for mad dog, unless you go for 2 level dip because you want those trip bonuses not the trip feat itself. Or even go for dog/wolf if you want that size bonus too.

Originally posted by Daidre:

3 Sacred Huntmaster/1 Vivi/16 Mad Dog. Fully upgraded Lethal Stance with higher crit multiplier on any weapon is nice, although a bit late.

reckless stance is better because that AB is untyped and stacks with bard song.

Originally posted by Daidre:

But Mad Dog for such build can be replaced with vanilla Ranger

not if you make use of trips it won't. Ranger is better tripper himself, but if you want your pet to trip for you - Mad Dog is better.

[Daidre]

My Amiri is always Enlarged or Legendary Proportion'ed later, she never in the first row. If I am lucky with rolls, she is with Fauchard for reach too.

Trip is so questionably useful in first chapters because of crazy high monster CMD and easily replaced with pure damage later (nothing lives longer than a round either way), when you actually capable of beating CMD that I stopped to bother with it long time ago.

Only person in my parties now with trip is kineticist who have a tons of free feats and Ekuns Dog.

And I drop bard from my party asap.

[InEffect]

thing is if you don't use trips on a pet there is absolute 0 of reasons to go MD over 2. Better bet would be to ramp whatever else. Even huntsmaster won't be that bad.

[Daidre]

Huntmaster is not that good either after level 3 and it has medium BAB progression that is sucky on melee focused char. Needs WIS or hat for casting too.

So with pet progressing classes, excluding full casters, It boils down to Ranger vs Mad Dog, as I said.
And mad dog best asset is crazy crits with super +10 damage axe at 17-20 x4 from Lethal Stance.

[haplok]

Originally posted by Daidre:

My Amiri is always Enlarged or Legendary Proportion'ed later, she never in the first row.

Mine also, I like damage, so reach is never an issue. Therefore, like I wrote, I have little trouble keeping her alive on Hard.

[InEffect]

sacred is the only decent inquisitor. He actually gains favored enemy bonuses and divine favor is nice. Also Bane weapon. Something like MD2/Sacred12/+6 spare is not a bad character by any means. and is better for damage than MD would be. MD2/Sacred12/Booter6 sounds like a decent plan. Only 2 levels behind on pet and has actual utility while keeping the damage.

[Daidre]

But I want my crits from this 17-20 x4 axe! A want them so much I am ready to make barbarian for them. With smilodon.
I would look at Huntmaster that would try to compete with this 200-300 hp crits.

So it is not about a class. It is about an axe)

[haplok]

Well, can't say I'm surprised. It IS one hell of an axe.

[InEffect]

huntsmaster actually might compete. Greater Bane weapon does add a ton of dice. And then we should add all those flat bonuses he'd get.