Why are range increments so low?

[Selvokaz]

Longbows have a range increments of 50ft? They should be 100ft, a barbarian has a movement speed of 40ft, meaning if they have a reach weapon they can threaten you after a brisk walk over to you, eliminating any advantage the fact that you're using a ranged weapon gives, that not enough?

A npc fighter can do an all out run in heavy armor/medium armor and put you out of reach with your LONGBOW. Example, the Staglord fort, when one enemy gets away to alarm the others, a guy who was southeast of my archer/oracle, ran past the oracle on a northwest trajectory, he ran so far even if my oracle moved her 20ft (has lame curse), she still wouldn't have been within range for a single shot.. WTF?

If any modders exist on the forums or knows any, please come up with a mod to restore range to range weapons.

[Selvokaz]

It's even worse when you think about lightly armored fighters with big weapons, range increment of 50ft vs lightly armored big weapon guy with 30ft movement, he charges you and your caught despite you likely wanting to attack him from maximum range away. In other words range pointless unless you're only using it for one round.

[Mhblis]

So so many reasons.

1. It has to work mechanically in a game. Massive ranges dont work on the maps. So realism had to go out the window to make the game work.

2. Balance

3. If your longbow is getting rushed range isnt the issue. You should be using tanks. The AI targets the closest enemy it sees. And even more so if you use choke points.

Thats the 3 biggest ones.

[Selvokaz]

Originally posted by Mhblis:

So so many reasons.

1. It has to work mechanically in a game. Massive ranges dont work on the maps. So realism had to go out the window to make the game work.

2. Balance

3. If your longbow is getting rushed range isnt the issue. You should be using tanks. The AI targets the closest enemy it sees. And even more so if you use choke points.

Thats the 3 biggest ones.

1.) debunked look at spells that have a long range attached to them. You can literally lightning bolt from further than a longbow can hit. The maps have the room, to work 110ft range into them.

2.) Balance? bows are balanced by their lower end damage when compared to say a two handed weapon, the game is balanced around the pnp rules its supposed to be based on, there is no additional need to balance something that they themselves didn't make.

3.) You are presuming a whole lot. First there is no aggro system, npcs are free to ignore the front liners if they want. Also again if your argument is true and the maps have to be smaller for "Balance reason" then front liners or tanks don't matter because everyone is still bunched up together which they are sometimes but that just defeats the balance argument even more because of the whole point of ranged attacks is because you don't need everyone crowding one or two enemies since that puts everyone in harms way instead of having 2 or 3 people attacking from a safe distance which is just smart strategizing.

[Lampros]

Just, no.

[Aria Athena]

Originally posted by Lettus:

First there is no aggro system, npcs are free to ignore the front liners if they want.

There is an aggro system, you just need at least 2 front liners to keep enemies at bay.


It wouldn't matter if the longbow had a range of 100ft, your line of sight is less than that. Also if something is hitting you from outside your line of sight, it's considered "invisible" and its attacking your flat-footed AC. The are some enemies that do that in the game and it's complete bs.

[Stink Bug]

Ranges on spells are messed up too. Maybe it helps balance some of them out, but for those with a huge radius like entangle etc., you can barely cast without hitting the caster as well.

[dulany67]

Honestly, I don't think the viewable area is any more than 100 feet without moving the camera. So basically an archer with a long bow should reach anything on the screen without moving the camera. That's fine with me, as long as enemies can do it also.

But a couple things: rangers already do consistent heavy damage and you can put them in plate, and lightning bolts aren't a very good comparison since they are both magic and a freaking lightning bolt.

[=[NK]= Col. Jack O'Neil]

Mods fix the spell ranges, not bows though

[Edstyles]

Just give your party haste :p then kite mob or have a pet intercept

[InEffect]

if we are talking realism, lets start with the fact longbows will do virtually nothing against plate armor. If anything, ranges in the game are too much to have a chance shooting the gap outside of statistical error with a longbow and your archer should be fatigued after 4 rounds give or take.

[=[NK]= Col. Jack O'Neil]

Originally posted by InEffect:

if we are talking realism, lets start with the fact longbows will do virtually nothing against plate armor. If anything, ranges in the game are too much to have a chance shooting the gap outside of statistical error with a longbow and your archer should be fatigued after 4 rounds give or take.

I think he's talking about PnP, not realism.

[InEffect]

in pnp engagement ranges are usually pretty low too. Not that often you actually fight things in the field. Usually it's like talk => fight or walk into a room => fight, etc. Actual battlefield scenarios are so rare I think ranges only kinda come into play shooting at running enemies, allowing for an extra round of shooting maybe. Also, advocates of PNP archery should also root for cover implementation and no sneaks outside of flat-footed enemies. So given the OP comes off as wanting the game easier I doubt pnp implementation would have the desired effect for him. Also limited ammo and ammo weight. Just to make it more painful.

[Tuidjy]

Originally posted by InEffect:

if we are talking realism, lets start with the fact longbows will do virtually nothing against plate armor. If anything, ranges in the game are too much to have a chance shooting the gap outside of statistical error with a longbow and your archer should be fatigued after 4 rounds give or take.

Realism stops at the feats that allow you to shoot at people fighting in melee without an accuracy penalty. Or at a wimp with strength 6 using a very powerful composite recruve with just a slight penalty to damage. Or at non-magical classes getting 40 shots per minute with non-magical longbows. Or even at the existence of composite longbows, although that last one is more alike to the one-handed longsword.

And of course, how could I forget the ranged accuracy depending on dexterity. In real life, shooting a bow accurately depends on:
- being strong enough to handle the bow you are using (the BIG bottleneck)
- having a few days of instruction and a few weeks of practice
- having good eyes
- having enough intelligence to judge wind, drag and drop

If I had a dollar for everyone who heard 'to train an archer, start with his grandfather' and completely misunderstood the point...

[InEffect]

conventional strength is of little help also. archery uses different set of muscles, although being toned surely would ease the process. I highly doubt anyone can just pick up 100+ pound warbow and just learn to shoot it in 2 weeks.

edit. Either way however you approach it - it would not end how OP probably thinks it would. PF rules for shooting are pretty harsh and RL is even harsher.

[Mooew]

Originally posted by InEffect:

Hey, accept friend pls. Have a proposition.