A better 2 handed fighter build

[Drednes The Eternal]

I just finished the stag lord lvl 4 and have been running around and noticed that unlike baldurs gate a fighter is not gona be good enough with just basics attacking (cause im just missing 50% of my attacks)

He dies relatively fast (which im looking for a fix pls)

And something for accuracy (dont know if fighter gets more abilities later that help only got sunder armor so far,looked around and i see that team based abilities are actually good so please recommend anything good)

And i want a solid frontline 2 handed fighter build so no range,or specking to deep into magic or stealth or things like that

Have been eyeing up the eldritch knight(basically want to create a death knight from wow ) for like a mix of melee and magick but dont know if its any good with my play style

The party if it means anything:fighter(me),amiri,valerie,linzi,jaethal,harrim

[gymratt17]

take a level of sorcerer and then dragon disciple.. gives you shield for extra ac, mirror images, you can take heroism. plus dragon discple gives you good boosts to str, con etc

[Edstyles]

Originally posted by Drednes The Eternal:

I just finished the stag lord lvl 4 and have been running around and noticed that unlike baldurs gate a fighter is not gona be good enough with just basics attacking (cause im just missing 50% of my attacks)

He dies relatively fast (which im looking for a fix pls)

And something for accuracy (dont know if fighter gets more abilities later that help only got sunder armor so far,looked around and i see that team based abilities are actually good so please recommend anything good)

And i want a solid frontline 2 handed fighter build so no range,or specking to deep into magic or stealth or things like that

Have been eyeing up the eldritch knight(basically want to create a death knight from wow ) for like a mix of melee and magick but dont know if its any good with my play style

The party if it means anything:fighter(me),amiri,valerie,linzi,jaethal,harrim

I feel like meele will often struggle abit hitting stuff if the mob is high level or higher difficulty . So you might want to get every little improve you can get to your hit rating . I've found that freebooter gives a nice boost to that . Then there is mutagen . Bard song . Good hope . Haste I think and a few more . So try to make a team that gives you these party benefits.

Which is why I make Amiri freebooter as she can help the party and not just swing a massive sword . She can be your 2 hander user.

There are also some feats that could help and debuffs that could help . Like shatter defences and a few more things .

[wendigo211]

A couple of things that might help your Fighter survive:

• Crane Style and Fighting Defensively. It increases the AC bonus you get and decreases the attack penalty. With Crane Style and 3 ranks in mobility you get a +4 to AC for a -2 to hit. Crane Wing will give you another +4 AC against melee attacks, but you lose it for the rest of the round if an attack is greater than your AC-4. Crane Riposte will decrease the hit penalty to -1, and give you a counter attack if you lose the bonus from Crane Wing. You'll need Dodge and Improved Unarmed Strike to take the feats.
  
• 1 level of Vivisectionist for the mutagen. It's +2 AC and +4 to strength (that stacks with enhancement and size bonuses). The other alchemist specs would also work, but +1d6 sneak attack probably helps you more than a couple of bombs.
  
• Dragon Disciple. You'll need a Knowledge (Arcana) skill of 5 and casting from either a Bard or a dragon bloodline Sorcerer or Eldritch Scion. You want to take 4 levels of the class, which will give +2 to AC, +4 to Strength, a bite attack and 3 caster levels. Having some additional arcane levels will also help so that you can buff yourself with Mirror Image, I find a caster level of 6 is pretty good for a melee build (gives you 1d4+2 images and 2 or 3 casts).
  
• Stalwart Defender Levels. You need Dodge and Toughness to take this class. You can eventually get 3 dodge AC out of the class, and using the stance will give you another +2.
  
• Wings. If you're an Aasimar, you can take the feat for a +3 to AC vs. Melee Attacks.

Depending on your character a Monk level, or Duelist/Sword Saint levels could help, but it gets a bit more complicated.

[Orange]

2h is not a front-liner its a damage dealer, for it to actually be able to tank you'd need both magical buffs and combat expertise which will only increase the amount of attacks you miss and even then probably levels in Stalwart defender to try to be close to a regular tank. (Crane Style requires 1h build btw)

If you feel you are missing too many attacks for the love of god turn off Power Attack or buff yourself with the party members abilities, that means Linzi's Song of Courage and Heroism or at least Jaethal's or Harrim's Bless\Aid or Bull Strenght to try and offset the penalties.


Fighter is a fine class but you have to choose what you want to be good at. If you wanted to tank, you should have gone either shield or 1h weapon

Also if you want a death knight, just take the Cleric and give it a 2h sword with plate armor plus the Edgy Domains.

Eldritch Knight its not something you do on a whim, its something you plan for before hand otherwise you end up gimping yourself. As they are weaker than a fighter in martial prowess (fighters outdamage them in melee) and less powerful than a normal wizard/sorcerer (in spell level and access). Plus their builds are a mid-late game investments, as they tend to only come online near levels 12 and above

[jsaving]

If you want a two-handed front liner that has survivability + abilities that increase accuracy, then you might consider a strength-based eldritch scion (abyssal bloodline). I know the description of magus makes it sound like they should keep a hand free but they are plenty strong using a two-hander (or a bastard sword which would let you toggle spell combat on and off as you see fit).

Or alternatively, if you are less interested in survivability you could consider a barbarian who splashes fighter and viv. That won't get the job done on hard or unfair but is a solid damage-dealer on normal or challenging.

[Yosharian]

@Orange. Two-hander can easily be a good frontline character. Crane Style doesn't require 1H. Shields are almost irrelevant in this game unless you are going for a shield bash build our you have 9 levels of TSS.

As for Eldritch Knight, it's not very good, Magus is better.

Dipping Sorc just to get DD is a pretty bad idea, definitely not worth it.

@Drednes The Eternal: I have a few ideas about your build. Come to the Kingmaker Discord and I'll talk to you there, in the Character Builds channel.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Yosharian:

@Orange. Two-hander can easily be a good frontline character. Crane Style doesn't require 1H. Shields are almost irrelevant in this game unless you are going for a shield bash build our you have 9 levels of TSS.

As for Eldritch Knight, it's not very good, Magus is better.

Dipping Sorc just to get DD is a pretty bad idea, definitely not worth it.

@Drednes The Eternal: I have a few ideas about your build. Come to the Kingmaker Discord and I'll talk to you there, in the Character Builds channel.

Indeed. I've had 2H Sword Saints that pushed 60 AC pre-buffs.

But I guess the OP wants the Fighter class as a cornerstone. Even then, you can achieve a 2H tank at least in Challenging.

[Yosharian]

Fighter can work, but its best multiclassed with something else. Pure Fighter is just underwhelming IMO.

[Edstyles]

It can work to some extent . Give it ranged meele wep and enlarge , problem being ofc . You will lack some hit no matter what so just get all buffs available.
Could also go with barbarian invulnerable rager and just take the hits as long as is normal difficult should be ok

[Mooew]

Originally posted by Drednes The Eternal:

I just finished the stag lord lvl 4 and have been running around and noticed that unlike baldurs gate a fighter is not gona be good enough with just basics attacking (cause im just missing 50% of my attacks)

Yeah, totally recall that era. No way to hit anything without vanish from Linzi. It will get better later.

The way melee hits anything is following.

1) Use a weapon with high crit range (18-20). When attack rolls, 18-20 roll (15% chance) is guaranteed hit, regardless of target armor, and maybe will crit. Soon "Keen" weapons will begin to pop here and there, keen 18-20 weapon has crit range 15-20 (30% chance). I dont remember which 2 handers are 18-20, well, fuchard definetely is. Most 2h are 19-20. At ~13 lvl there will be Feat "improved critical", which doubles crit range, as far as remember it does not stack with keen. As level progresses, there will be more attacks per turn, meaning more crit attempts, something will stick.
2) Take "Shatter defence" feat. It requires Dazzling Display feat. Shatter changes things dramatically. For it to work you'll need a source of Shaken debuff, which is level 8 bard. (song "Dirge of Doom". Also Dazzling Display itself is a source of shatter, but probably on an other char. Later, a 2h fighter should take Dreadful carnage feat.
3) Take Outflank feat (+2 attack), have 2nd melee hitting the same enemy.
4) Buffs. Note that Tristian has Touch of Good and another... thing from his class. Also if someone takes 1 level of Freebooter, he'll give everybody free +1 AB.

As for immediate future - the 2nd chapter consists of fighting trolls and animals. Well, trolls are practically untankable, bcs at these levels can oneshot a tank, but are rather susceptible to control. Grease spell is op for this period. Past Season of Bloom chapter game somehow becomes much easier.

As for "sunder armor" - don't think it's worth it.

[wendigo211]

To increase your chances to hit, you probably need to understand a bit about buff stacking. Basically there are different types of bonuses you can get from buffs, the most common are:

• Morale: Bless, Heroism, Greater Heroism, Good Hope, Heroic Invocation
  
• Competence: Courage Inspiration,
  
• Luck: Divine Favor, Divine Power

There's also sacred, inspiration and profane, but you're less likely to run into those. If you buff a party member, they'll get the best of each type. For example, if your 2HF has been buffed with Bless (+1 morale), Heroism (+2 morale) and Courage Inspiration from a level 5 Bard (+2 competence), he'll get a +4 to hit (+2 morale and +2 competence). There are a few other bonuses that are untyped and stack with each other and the other bonuses:

• Flanking bonus, +2 or +4 with Outflank
  
• Charge bonus, +2
  
• Freebooter's Bane (scales with level)
  
• Study Target (Slayer ability, scales with level)

Stacking these bonuses as much as you can will improve your hit chances as you level up.

Increasing your attack bonus ability modifier will also improve your chance to hit. For a 2HF that's likely Strength. Again you can stack buffs to some degree to improve your ability bonus. The types of buffs for ability bonuses are:

• Alchemical: Mutagen
  
• Size: Enlarge Person, Reduce Person, Legendary Proportions, Frightful Aspect
  
• Profane: a couple of items from the Varnhold's Lot DLC
  
• Enhancement: everything else

Again you'll get the best of each type on your character.

Finally, you can improve your chance of hitting your opponent by denying them some of their AC. There are 6 types of AC: Armor, Base, Deflection, Dodge, Natural, Shield. Against regular attacks all of these types of AC will defend the target. Touch attacks target: Base, Deflection and Dodge. If you catch an opponent flat-footed, they lose their Dodge AC (they keep the dexterity component if they have uncanny dodge). If you catch an opponent flat-footed with a touch attack, they'll only have Deflection and Base AC. So under the right circumstances you can strip away most of an opponent's AC.

Some spells are touch attacks. As are an Alchemist's bombs and a Kineticist's energy blasts. Magi get an arcane pool ability called Dimension Strike that turns all their attacks into touch attacks. Brilliant Energy weapons ignore armor and shield AC (but are still stopped by natural) so their attacks are similar to touch attacks. A 2HF won't have access to any of these abilities unless he invests heavily in Magus levels.

Getting flat-footed bonuses against enemies is a lot easier. Greater Invisibility will let you catch your opponents flat-footed as long they don't have true-seeing or its equivalent. Shatter Defenses will do the same against opponents who are shaken or afraid. Magi have an arcane pool ability called Prescient Attack, and Arcane Tricksters have Impromptu Sneak Attack. At the beginning of combat, attacks against opponents who haven't taken their first action will catch them flat-footed. For a 2HF Shatter Defenses and getting buffed with Greater Invisibility will be your best bet for exploiting this.

[Drednes The Eternal]

damn...awesome advices and even explanations in no time at all thanks all a ton!

[Mooew]

Originally posted by Drednes The Eternal:

damn...awesome advices and even explanations in no time at all thanks all a ton!

Also check InEffect's builds, note the patterns, note the stats, see which feats are strong (spoiler: outflank, shatter, seize the moment, crane style). Ingame when leveling, toggle "show unaveliable" in feat selectionm that way you'll see what feats exist and what are prerequisites.
https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffect_builds_for_you/page1
https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-kingmaker/builds/Main_Character

And one more thought, at the very beginning when my 2h warrior (Amiri) couldnt hit anything yet, I gave her long weapon (some kind of spear), and charged before every attack (charge-run back-cahrge again). It's not much, but it's honest +2 AB. Needs long weapon as to not provoke attacks of opportunity.

[THAC0]

Originally posted by Drednes The Eternal:

I just finished the stag lord lvl 4 and have been running around and noticed that unlike baldurs gate a fighter is not gona be good enough with just basics attacking (cause im just missing 50% of my attacks)

He dies relatively fast (which im looking for a fix pls)

And something for accuracy (dont know if fighter gets more abilities later that help only got sunder armor so far,looked around and i see that team based abilities are actually good so please recommend anything good)

And i want a solid frontline 2 handed fighter build so no range,or specking to deep into magic or stealth or things like that

Have been eyeing up the eldritch knight(basically want to create a death knight from wow ) for like a mix of melee and magick but dont know if its any good with my play style

The party if it means anything:fighter(me),amiri,valerie,linzi,jaethal,harrim

How da ♥♥♥♥ are you missing 50% of your attacks as a fighter if thats how it is how is anyone eles able to hit more then that?
playing on super hard diff and just buffed up there stats and didnt level your guy up at all?
its ♥♥♥♥♥♥ easy to play Two Handed Fighter ill give you the three steps
Step 1) Get Strength as High as Possible
Step 2) Pick up a Two Handed Weapon (That your pro in)
Step 3) Get Power Attack Feat and use if need be, Or not.

DONE
Simplest class in the game and you ♥♥♥♥ it up some how.

Die fast? With D10 HP and Good Armor are you just charging in solo style like
wtf
is
your
build.

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by Mooew:

1) Use a weapon with high crit range (18-20). When attack rolls, 18-20 roll (15% chance) is guaranteed hit, regardless of target armor, and maybe will crit. Soon "Keen" weapons will begin to pop here and there, keen 18-20 weapon has crit range 15-20 (30% chance). I dont remember which 2 handers are 18-20, well, fuchard definetely is. Most 2h are 19-20. At ~13 lvl there will be Feat "improved critical", which doubles crit range, as far as remember it does not stack with keen. As level progresses, there will be more attacks per turn, meaning more crit attempts, something will stick.

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. An attack with the d20 roll in the threat range still must be >= the target's AC to hit, unless the roll is a 20. 20 always hits and 1 always misses.