Why not multi-class as a cleric or arcane caster?

[Lampros]

I keep reading that you should not multi-class clerics or arcane casters such as wizards and sorcerers. But why not? It seems like you get level 9 spells before you even hit level 10. So what do you gain by going the full 20 level in one class?

Please explain this for me; and thanks in advance!

[NamelessOne]

You lose spell casting levels. If you go to 17 and then mc it's probably ok. But a dip with 98 percent of the game over with is kinda pointless.

[Mork]

Cleric and wizard get level 9 spell at level 17
Sorcerer at level 18

Cleric and wizard can take the hit to be 1 level behind of normal spell progression but more then that, it's hurt and weaken them in general.

Sorcerer are already 1 level behind from the start, so ... you definitely have to think twice before multiclassing them.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Mork:

Cleric and wizard get level 9 spell at level 17
Sorcerer at level 18

Cleric and wizard can take the hit to be 1 level behind of normal spell progression but more then that, it's hurt and weaken them in general.

Sorcerer are already 1 level behind from the start, so ... you definitely have to think twice before multiclassing them.

Ah, ok. I thought I already had level 9 spells, but guess not.

[Lampros]

Wait, I am confused. I checked in-game, and the game shows that my Cleric and Sorcerer both have level 9 spells, and they are only level 11?

[Mork]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2060827869

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Mork:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2060827869

So it's the starred level?

[Mork]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by Mork:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2060827869

So it's the starred level?

The star is metamagic spell you have created.

[InEffect]

There is a reason to multiclass. https://i.imgur.com/iYQxQqn.png can't do that without multiclassing. And It's possible to push it into 400, but I don't see the reason to. There are also gishes that surely do want multiclassing and there are theurges that are awesome as level20 mercs.

[NamelessOne]

Originally posted by InEffect:

There is a reason to multiclass. https://i.imgur.com/iYQxQqn.png can't do that without multiclassing. And It's possible to push it into 400, but I don't see the reason to.

That's pretty advanced for a player that didnt know the difference between class level and spell level

[Edstyles]

ITs fine to multiclass casters , just dont go overboard with it. Im thinking my druid is going to dip into 2 classes.

[InEffect]

Well yeah multiclassing anything without a solid idea of what you're doing will likely end up worse than a straight class most likely. For a new player necro/conjuration sylvan or maybe an illusion/conjuration wizard of some sort will be an easier go. Mostly cause it only needs greater empower rods to function decently well and the latter needs pretty much nothing at all.

[Falaris]

The basic reasoning is, as a wizard/sorcerer, being a bit of a fighter won't make you better at casting spells, and that's the main thing you're doing. Also, the strength of many spells are based on your level in that class.

As a fighter, of course it would be useful to be able to haste yourself... but you're not an island. The party wizard can do that for you just fine, so as (insert non-magic class here) you don't need to cast spells yourself.

There are prestige classes and such that need some multiclassing, though, and they can be pretty good. (Octavia and arcane trickster, e.g.).

[InEffect]

That's wildly incorrect. All best physical classes are gishes. Even without multiclassing straight 20 STR vivi is better than whatever you can do on a fighter. And straight 20 vivi is a far cry from the best one can do.

[Falaris]

Your comments are singularily useless. Go away, you sad and irrelevant person.

For the OP, if you want to know what InEffect is going on about, there's a forum for character builds and such, particularily powerful ones, at:
https://www.enworld.org/forums/-/list#general-tabletop-discussion

[[TGC] MadGod]

The only reasons for going "pure 20" or "dips" that preserve your "caster level" is just that. Caster level. If you are an offensive caster, you want to keep those caster levels to

a) do more damage (check Fireball)
b) get dispelled less easily (not really relevant in this game)
c) spells depending on your caster level last longer
d) overcome spell resistance of enemies
e) dispel enemy spells easier

If you lose "caster" levels, you also get your spells later as Mork pointed out already.

You multiclass for reasons. Simple as that. You have to ask yourself: what is your goal with the character, what should they be able to do. Are they pure spellcasters? Pure melee, pure ranged? Do you want to "mix" spell casting with combat? Which combat then? Melee or ranged? The list is endless.

And endless are the ways to reach your goals, mostly with an obscure mix of 1-3 level "dips" into multiple classes or even prestige classes.

If you are inexperienced, go for pure characters, they teach you the system. Play on normal, normal crits, normal damage.

Get to know what you can and what you cannot do by trying stuff out and saving before you do.

Do not use ultra-optimized, complex builds you do not understand yet. They will surely work, but you will not figure out why. It does not matter if your character does 100, 200 or 10000 damage a round. It matters that your character can overcome the challenges.

For instance. A perfectly viable multiclass melee cleric/buff caster is a

Fighter 2 or Barbarian 2/Cleric X of Gorum with a great sword (depending if you want rage/uncanny dodge or heavy armor+1 more feat )

Minmaxers and optimizers will scoff at that, telling you there are so many more ways to get a "better" fighting cleric and they are right. But it is simple. Not much to it and it will teach you the basics of spells, caster level and spell level, the differences of bonus types and all that jazz.

For a buff caster/after combat healer, it is irrelevant if they lose a level or 2 in their pure spellcasting class and have a charisma of 7. Hell, I would give him a max wisdom of 15 or 16 at the start. The spells will not be your offensive power and healing does not scale off wisdom. So you only lose bonus spells and will save.

You will see that this build lacks and you will realize why, once you check the combat logs. Later on, when you got all that, you can start looking at other ppls builds and change them to your liking, trying different angles. You will realize that this should not be your main healer. :)

For example the mage front:

Rogue 3/Sorcerer X or Wizard X, ray specialist.

Again, ppl will moan and cry. But in the end, it is a simple, Spell Level 9 caster@ level 20 that does a little sneak attack on the side (not that it matters later on..). Of course it is lacking and it will teach you the nice sounding, but useless feats, the difference between being a level 5 Caster early game or a level 3/2 Rogue/Caster. You will realize why toughness, imp. Initiative and a hare familiar will be your early-mid game friends. You will find out why Arcane Trickster is such a strong choice after level 3/3 (if wizard) compared to a level 3/17 rogue/caster.

Try out stuff. Yes, it takes time and if you just want to see where your character ends up, use the "Bag of Tricks" Mod on a separate Save ( i think it is bag of tricks..) and level your characters to 5, 10, 15 and look how they develop number-wise if you multiclass or not. Bag of Tricks also allows you to summon enemies iirc, so you can try out hands on.

Soon you come up with your own builds and that is half the fun. :)

And if you stay one class to level 20, well, they are all viable and fun to play, but the tougher fights are a little harder for them than for their optimized cousins.