How useful is Dazzling Display as a cornerstone of a build?

[KDubya]

Got a concept of making a Magus Sword Saint who uses a dueling sword and grabs two levels of Aldori Swordlord to get Deft Strike for adding dex damage and then getting Display Weapon Prowess to get a bunch of pluses for the Dazzling Display check.


The questions I have are:
1.) Is pursuing a really high Dazzling Display worthwhile? Are lots of enemies immune?

2.) Should I grab three more Aldori Swordlord levels to get a 16 BAB, +1 AC, -1 penalty from Combat Expertise, Adaptive Tactics and Shatter Confidence which will allow free checks after a crit. This'd make it 15/5 on the levels and lose a bonus feat, one magus arcana, arcane weapon +5 and counterstrike.

3.) Should I think of grabbing some levels of Thug for Frightening?

4.) If I grab Thug should I grab two levels to get Evasion? Four to get Uncanny Dodge?

5.) I'd like to get 13 or more in Magus for Lethal Focus that adds intellect to damage rolls against flat footed. So that gives me seven levels to use between Thug and Aldori Swordlord.

[Peelsepuuppi]

Dazzling Display is strong in this game especially when paired with couple melee users that can take advantage of the Flat Footed AC with Shatter Defenses. Thug is usually used for Frightening to get longer duration on your dazzling. I don't think the second level would do much for you. Though Frightening is a bit of a double edged sword as sometimes enemies running around is more annoying than useful.

[mike.xulima]

Originally posted by ToveriJuri:

Dazzling Display is strong in this game especially when paired with couple melee users that can take advantage of the Flat Footed AC with Shatter Defenses. Thug is usually used for Frightening to get longer duration on your dazzling. I don't think the second level would do much for you. Though Frightening is a bit of a double edged sword as sometimes enemies running around is more annoying than useful.

It has kind of a short range though, but it is nice with Shatter.

[Bishop]

I'm not huge fan of Dazzling Display personally but it has its uses.

The problems with feat is: a) it takes full action, no movements, no attacks, no AoO, nothing. b) range is not that amazing. c) fighters cannot fight defensively and use dazzling display at the same time (so giving it to your main tank will heavily impact his defense).


Advantages are : a) nothing is particularly immune from what I noticed. b) easy to stack intimidation and apply. c) its required to get Shatter defense and Dreadful carnage anyway. And Shatter Defense is stupidly good.

Personally I give it to Trisitian. He has good charisma, persuasion as a main skill, can wear +10 diplomacy robe without problems and.. he's kinda useless otherwise. Spamming displays actually makes him better.

Also I don't think Thug is really needed. You use Display/Carnage to activate Shatter defense in the first place. Targets running around like headless chicken may be funny to watch but not exactly practical.

[Aria Athena]

I find them to be unreliable and wasted feats since you can just cast Greater Invisibility. I can think of only one instance where Dazzling Display and Shatter Defense is more useful.

[wendigo211]

I find it useful on unfair, mostly because you can get your intimidate ranks much higher than any spell DC and even the inflated enemy saves on that difficulty level. While the Thug upgrade might be annoying, an enemy who's running around isn't casting spells or attacking your characters, so it's effectively CC with a high chance of working on anything it can affect.

[Edstyles]

Running opponents do trigger aoo tho and small annoying stuff might be nice to use on . Just. Don't use it all the time . If you find it annoying it's prolly cause of overuse . If you know u can handle the opponent's why use dazzling then ? You could have it on the backline users instead

[Peelsepuuppi]

I'd say DD really gets to shine when you put it on a kineticist. They get early access Dreadful Carnage which means your uptime for shaken is going to be high. However dipping in that thug will be a mistake.

[Lampros]

Is fearing an enemy ideal? I've had a lot of early moments when feared enemies caused more problems because either 1) they ran too far away and it took a while for me to catch them (a bigger problem with the turn-based mod I am using) or 2) they aggroed adjacent enemy groups.

[Edstyles]

Just have someone in the backline use it if they get overrun by mobs you'd have a panic button . No pun intended.
Linzi . Tristian maybe jaethal could work

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Edstyles:

Just have someone in the backline if they get overrun by mobs you'd have a panic button . No pun intended.

Huh? What do you mean?

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Is fearing an enemy ideal? I've had a lot of early moments when feared enemies caused more problems because either 1) they ran too far away and it took a while for me to catch them (a bigger problem with the turn-based mod I am using) or 2) they aggroed adjacent enemy groups.

It depends, running away isn't always a problem because they will comeback, and the time they spend coming back is extra rounds where they're out of the battle. I agree that can suck at lower levels where your buffs don't last too long. You can make use of the behaviour to chase enemies into corners (preferably corners where you've dropped some damaging AoEs or hazardous terrain).

I didn't really have trouble with the aggroed adjacent groups except for at the beginning of the last chapter where you're trying to escape and have to deal with some pretty serious debuffs.

[kaymarciy]

You don't want to wait until like lvl 6 to get Deft Strike on a Dex-based SwordSaint. Seriously.

Originally posted by KDubya:

1.) Is pursuing a really high Dazzling Display worthwhile? Are lots of enemies immune?

To pursue high Intimidation you need high Str and high Char. As a Dex-based SwordSaint (since you go for the Deft Strike) those are dump stats. Undead are immune and there's enough of them in one of chapters. Atop of that vermins, golems and plants are immune. There aren't many, but they are nasty. Also raging barbarians are immune, but those are few.

Originally posted by KDubya:

Should I grab three more Aldori Swordlord levels to get a 16 BAB, +1 AC, -1 penalty from Combat Expertise, Adaptive Tactics and Shatter Confidence which will allow free checks after a crit. This'd make it 15/5 on the levels and lose a bonus feat, one magus arcana, arcane weapon +5 and counterstrike.

Sounds like an utter waste on Swordsaint who can simply cast Transformation.

Originally posted by KDubya:

3.) Should I think of grabbing some levels of Thug for Frightening?
4.) If I grab Thug should I grab two levels to get Evasion? Four to get Uncanny Dodge?

Unless you have a full party of archers or Pummeling Bullies - no. It turns fighting into a fiesta of tag game.

If you want Dazzling Display as a tanking tool (-2 ToHit for enemies), then any other melee can do that. Valerie, Jaethal, Regongar, Linzi. Just not the MC SwordSaint who will have to spend an entire turn on this action (and lose Fighting Defensively and Combar Expertise) while he could destroy several enemies meantime.
If you want Dazzling Display as a stepstone for Shatter Defense, then it makes no sense, because you will have Greater Invis and Prescient Strike.

Dazzling Display is used mainly by solo-running Dex built Scaled Fists or Inquisitors, who can't benefit from the Cornugon Smash. Or by giving a Thug lvl to Valerie to screw up the Wild Hunt in the last chapter.

[mike.xulima]

Originally posted by ToveriJuri:

I'd say DD really gets to shine when you put it on a kineticist. They get early access Dreadful Carnage which means your uptime for shaken is going to be high. However dipping in that thug will be a mistake.

It's very good on an Inquisitor as well since their Intimidate is so high thanks to Stern Gaze.

[mike.xulima]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Is fearing an enemy ideal? I've had a lot of early moments when feared enemies caused more problems because either 1) they ran too far away and it took a while for me to catch them (a bigger problem with the turn-based mod I am using) or 2) they aggroed adjacent enemy groups.

Well to use Shatter, the enemy has to only be Shaken (never stirred!), and they don't flee when they are shaken. DD makes them Shaken.

Frightened would make them run, but that is something the Thug Rogue subclass does, not plain Dazzling Display.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by mike.xulima:

Originally posted by Lampros:

Is fearing an enemy ideal? I've had a lot of early moments when feared enemies caused more problems because either 1) they ran too far away and it took a while for me to catch them (a bigger problem with the turn-based mod I am using) or 2) they aggroed adjacent enemy groups.

Well to use Shatter, the enemy has to only be Shaken (never stirred!), and they don't flee when they are shaken. DD makes them Shaken.

Frightened would make them run, but that is something the Thug Rogue subclass does, not plain Dazzling Display.

Ah, ok. Thanks, bro!