Valerie - tank build discussion

[Schanez]

Disclaimer:
This is by no means to be another rant topic. She is a good character. Her stats are decent. Stop whining you minmaxing munchkins. It is meant to be a comprehensive build ideas discussion.

Now with that out of the way... I have been romancing with a couple builds for her the past few restarts, as I was testing various classes in the game. But every time it fell somewhat short on delivering my desired effects. But first the basics!

Tower Shield Specialist 1
Strength 14 / Dexterity 13 / Constitution 19 / Intelligence 9 / Wisdom 10 / Charisma 15

I must say it is not optimal, but when did we ever get an optimised companion in an RPG? So...

At first I thought about giving her Power Attack, Cornugon Smash and Intimidating Prowess. But... It's not the best... It does the job it is meant to, but with her mediocre Strength and Charisma the save DC was not too great. I tried to just go the no-brainer Shield Specialist or what it's called, forgot and tried to grab Trip for the giggles. But again the DC was not too great.

Then it hit me. And here is my current idea!

1. On level 2, grab Scaled Fist for Cha to AC and Crane Style.
2. Push Tower Shield Specialist till character level 8. Goal is to have Dodge, Toughness and Endurance by that time.
3. Level 4 Ability point goes into Dexterity. Level 8 goes into Charisma. Level 12 will go into Constitution.
4. Afterwards you go into Stalwart Defender.
5. Grab the best Charisma Tiara and the universal belt.

From level 2 onwards you add Charisma to AC as well as gain better Defensive Fighting. Stalwart Defender gives you bonuses to Strength and Constitution as well as passive bonus to AC. From fighter you should have enough feats spare to grab some additional stuff, Weapon Focus and Specialisation come to mind. Not sure if you can cheese the system with a +4 Intelligence tiara to qualify for Combat Expertise. You can even go with Power Attack and Cornugon Smash as well, after you have the basics covered.

[Gracey Face]

The best thing to do if you want Val to be an effective tank is to download the respec mod from nexus mods and then...


Nah but seriously though, I like the flavor of con but hitpoints are basically useless compared to yet more dex and then feats that increase the max dex bonus on your armor. Think you can get a max dex of +4 on full plate isn't it with a Tower Shield specialist.


Also the stat and AC bonuses from Stalwart only apply in defensive stance and so are kind of gimpy due to low duration and rendering you stationary. At least if memory serves.

[ArhraCole]

Doesn't her using a shield cancel out the AC bonus from the monk scaled fist? Or are you proposing to not have her using a shield from level 2 until you can pick up Stalwart Defender?

[Schanez]

Originally posted by Bert Sampsen:

Nah but seriously though, I like the flavor of con but hitpoints are basically useless compared to yet more dex and then feats that increase the max dex bonus on your armor. Think you can get a max dex of +4 on full plate isn't it with a Tower Shield specialist.

With Belt of Physical Perfection she will have around 16-18 Dexterity I believe. Should be close to the allowed max bonus from armor.

Originally posted by ArhraCole:

Doesn't her using a shield cancel out the AC bonus from the monk scaled fist? Or are you proposing to not have her using a shield from level 2 until you can pick up Stalwart Defender?

Ahh shoot... I saw you can use it with a shield, didn't notice the unarmoured part in my excitement. I am going to see myself out now...

[Lightning]

Here's my Valerie so far, probably not best build but still works for now, the helmet and belt turn her more into a half tank / half barbarian even though she's purely all level 14 Fighter

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1670638864

[Schanez]

Originally posted by Lightning:

Here's my Valerie so far, probably not best build but still works for now, the helmet and belt turn her more into a half tank / half barbarian even though she's purely all level 14 Fighter

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1670638864

I was actually considering to build her into a Barbarian. With her anger issues and proximity of Amiri, it would be funny tbh. Guarded Stance boosts AC further. Rage remedies the Strength problem. Although that would probably cross out the Stalwart Defender path. In normal P&P you cannot use the stance with rage at the same time. No idea how it works in Kingmaker.

[=[NK]= Col. Jack O'Neil]

1 level of monk gives you unarmed strike for crane style, which is less attack penalty when fighting defensively. I think there was another benefit but can't think of it.

The melee kineticsis that uses con doesn't sound horrible, but I don't know much about that path.

[Schanez]

Originally posted by =NK= Col. Jack O'Neil:

1 level of monk gives you unarmed strike for crane style, which is less attack penalty when fighting defensively. I think there was another benefit but can't think of it.

The melee kineticsis that uses con doesn't sound horrible, but I don't know much about that path.

Monk normally would give you Charisma to AC, but that requires for Valerie to run around naked. Well... In Mage Armor and the Monk Robes to be precise.

I haven't played a Kineticist, like ever. So am somewhat in the dark about their mechanics. I read up some bas d on the DLC companion, but that's all.

[Lightning]

Originally posted by Schanez:

Originally posted by Lightning:

Here's my Valerie so far, probably not best build but still works for now, the helmet and belt turn her more into a half tank / half barbarian even though she's purely all level 14 Fighter

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1670638864

I was actually considering to build her into a Barbarian. With her anger issues and proximity of Amiri, it would be funny tbh. Guarded Stance boosts AC further. Rage remedies the Strength problem. Although that would probably cross out the Stalwart Defender path. In normal P&P you cannot use the stance with rage at the same time. No idea how it works in Kingmaker.

Yeah that helmet lets you enter rage mode along with summoning 2 gladiator ghosts to help as well its crazy good early on

[=[NK]= Col. Jack O'Neil]

Originally posted by Schanez:

Originally posted by =NK= Col. Jack O'Neil:

1 level of monk gives you unarmed strike for crane style, which is less attack penalty when fighting defensively. I think there was another benefit but can't think of it.

The melee kineticsis that uses con doesn't sound horrible, but I don't know much about that path.

Monk normally would give you Charisma to AC, but that requires for Valerie to run around naked. Well... In Mage Armor and the Monk Robes to be precise.

I haven't played a Kineticist, like ever. So am somewhat in the dark about their mechanics. I read up some bas d on the DLC companion, but that's all.

Nah don't worry about the armour, keep her in the heavy armour and benefit from crane style.

I mean you could burn 2 fighter combat feats and get unarmed fighting and crane style, or dip 1 level.. I respec her into an aasimar paladin so feats matter

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by =NK= Col. Jack O'Neil:

Originally posted by Schanez:

Monk normally would give you Charisma to AC, but that requires for Valerie to run around naked. Well... In Mage Armor and the Monk Robes to be precise.

I haven't played a Kineticist, like ever. So am somewhat in the dark about their mechanics. I read up some bas d on the DLC companion, but that's all.

Nah don't worry about the armour, keep her in the heavy armour and benefit from crane style.

I mean you could burn 2 fighter combat feats and get unarmed fighting and crane style, or dip 1 level.. I respec her into an aasimar paladin so feats matter

How do you respec her as a paladin? The respec mod I have won't let me do that,say's the class is unavailable if the character has the athiest trait as stupid as the idea of athiests in this setting is is (Checkmate Athiests!).


She's obviously meant to be a paladin, specifically the divine guardian or whatever it is, the one that thematically abandon's most of it's theological studies to focus on the temporal and so loses spellcasting. Kind of why her story is stupid "A guy said I was pretty once so ♥♥♥♥ ALL GODS AND THE MALE GAZE!!!". Seems perfectly reasonable to whoever wrote it apparently.

[=[NK]= Col. Jack O'Neil]

Yeah so you need to click on the abilities tag under the respec options and just click the little x next to that ability, then respec and it'll work.

[Schanez]

Originally posted by Bert Sampsen:

Originally posted by =NK= Col. Jack O'Neil:

Nah don't worry about the armour, keep her in the heavy armour and benefit from crane style.

I mean you could burn 2 fighter combat feats and get unarmed fighting and crane style, or dip 1 level.. I respec her into an aasimar paladin so feats matter

How do you respec her as a paladin? The respec mod I have won't let me do that,say's the class is unavailable if the character has the athiest trait as stupid as the idea of athiests in this setting is is (Checkmate Athiests!).


She's obviously meant to be a paladin, specifically the divine guardian or whatever it is, the one that thematically abandon's most of it's theological studies to focus on the temporal and so loses spellcasting. Kind of why her story is stupid "A guy said I was pretty once so ♥♥♥♥ ALL GODS AND THE MALE GAZE!!!". Seems perfectly reasonable to whoever wrote it apparently.

Yeah, she seems a bit on the... Edgy side of story writing.

"I am pretty like no other but I don't care and don't you even think of mentioning it! Doesn't matter I am probably the cutest you have ever seen! I will stuff my sword up your Trololololo !"

But that's not the topic here :P

Feyspeaker might be a decent alternative approach. Not focusing on the tank side, but making her Charisma worth something. Especially since I haven't found a Druid companion yet.

[ArhraCole]

Originally posted by Schanez:

-snip-

Feyspeaker might be a decent alternative approach. Not focusing on the tank side, but making her Charisma worth something. Especially since I haven't found a Druid companion yet.

That's a thought actually, because wild shape might still let her be a melee tank a bit and the druid levels would give her some spells and utility healing. Just have to find equipment she would be able to use. Still let her focus on Charisma and Constitution as her two primary stats.

[Schanez]

Originally posted by ArhraCole:

Originally posted by Schanez:

-snip-

Feyspeaker might be a decent alternative approach. Not focusing on the tank side, but making her Charisma worth something. Especially since I haven't found a Druid companion yet.

That's a thought actually, because wild shape might still let her be a melee tank a bit and the druid levels would give her some spells and utility healing. Just have to find equipment she would be able to use. Still let her focus on Charisma and Constitution as her two primary stats.

You get that Hide +2 at the end of the first main quest, best I found for a Druid by that point. Later you would be aiming for a Dragonhide Full Plate armor I guess. That's the "expected" approach in P&P, not sure the armor is available in Kingmaker.

[Uncanny]

Honestly I'd say going Kineticist or Kinetic Knight would work really well with Valerie. It will allow her to use her Constitution bonus for CMB and you can get Combat Maneuvers feats w/o having Combat Expertise, you can infuse your Kinetic Blasts w/ CMs (such as Bowling Infusion for Trip, there are Grapple and Bull Rush too), her Constitution bonus gets converted to damage rolls, she gets size bonuses to physical stats with Burn.

She get defense passives from her element (you get can get 2 elements at level 7, 3 at 15) Water gives Armour or Shield AC bonus, Earth gives DR/Adamantine, Air gives miss % vs ranged attacks (i think stacks with concealment). If you're not going to use a shield, I'd recommend against going Kinetic Knight since this archetype requires require shield+heavy armor to use your defense passives. A good cutoff point for multiclass builds is at Kineticist/Kinetic Knight 7 or 8, at that level your infusions costs are reduced by 2 (Kinetic Blade cost 0 for Kinetic Knight), you've unlocked your 2nd element for 2 defense passives and composite blasts, optimal BaB from a 75% BaB class (6/8), and you've got a 4d6 blast or 8d6 comp blast.

Kinetic Blade can make iterative attacks (according to BAB) and be used with TWF. KB cannot be used to make AoOs though but Power Attack and Cornugon Smash and other feats work with physical blast Kinetic Blade.

I'm away from my Kingmaker installation right now so I can't recall the feats/abilities to give a theoretical build, but I will try to post a mock-build when I get back later today! I might also be able to find out if you can make AoO if you have an off-hand when using TWF, but I don't think you can.

A cool build you can do is going Kinetic Knight 11 or 14 with Air as one of your elements and Water as your other element. This combo let's you do full attacks vs touch AC and each hit can stagger (synaptic infusion for electric or charged water; cold infusion for ice or blizzard) and entangle (entangle infusion on ice, blizzard, water, or charged water) and get the water + air defense passives.

For Kinetic Knight 14, I think the best combo of elements is Water (ice) + Air (air) so you can use cold infusion and entangle infusion together on ice blast (touch AC). For Kinetic Knight 1,1 I prefer Air since it can stagger vs Will saves. I prefer these over Earth for Kinetic Blade since all Earth blasts target regular AC.