I like this game, but I have to switch to story mode

[Madscientist]

I have played many RPGs, I did lots of reading about pathfinder rules and character creation but I still have many problems on normal difficulty in early game.

In the early game on normal:
- No matter how high your defense is, enemies always have a 5% chance to hit and a hit from an enemy can take away half of your health. And your options to max out your defense are not so big.
- You miss a lot. Of course you should try to optimize your hit chance. I could take weapon focus but I have no idea what weapons will I find later in the game.
- Save scumming is not fun but a single unlucky dice roll can ruin your day.
- And no, I do not try to kill enemies who are way above my level.

Just to be sure: The game can be done on normal or higher difficulties. But reloading if the enemies are lucky to roll 2 20s in a row or you roll a 1 on your save is not my idea of fun.
I enjoy the story, exploration, choices and characters. The game gives you the option to make things easier, so I have no reason to frustrate myself.

PS: I have no idea how anyone ever beat a PnP campaign.
Even a lousy bandit with a generic longsword can one hit you on level 1 or 2 if he lands a lucky crit. There is no reload and you can have bad luck with your HP rolls.

[Tlaquetzqui]

Don't worry about playing it in story mode. That's how I played it from the start; I don't play 100+ hour RPGs because I have a fetish for being abused by an RNG.

In the PnP version, nowadays anyway, your GM is not actively trying to kill your characters, and your party will usually start out with a healer, rather than only acquiring one shortly before the final encounter of the first mission, like in Kingmaker. Clerics get 3 + their Charisma modifier uses of "channel energy" per day at first level, meaning (since most clerics have Charisma as their second-highest stat) your party's cleric can heal the whole party 4 or 5 times per day. They can also "forget" any spells of first level or higher that they've prepared, and use them to cast a "cure [degree] wounds" spell of the same level, to heal any individual who gets hurt after that. (Other healer classes, like oracles or druids, or some witches, don't have quite that amount of flexibility, but you'll still be out of danger most of the time.)

Also PCs are built from slightly different stats than "common" NPCs, in Pathfinder: their ability scores are slightly higher and they have maximum hit points from their first HD, while NPCs normally only average half their first HD. (I.e. a 1st-level fighter PC, assuming a decent Constitution and a couple other things, can easily have 13 hp at first level. The "lousy bandit" would probably belong to the NPC class called "warrior", and not only typically has a lower Strength bonus, meaning a lower chance to hit with the longsword, but likely only has 6 or 7 hit points, too.)

[Xani]

It is ok to play complex rpg in story mode first time, it is a way to have more fun!

For example, I've played PoE1 in story mode, and now I'm trying PoE2 on path of the damned & turn based mode and having more fun because I know all mechanics from the first game.

So if you will play Pathfinder second time much later, you can try harder difficulties.

[Marcos_DS]

I would recommend to get yourself a nice mercenary as soon as you arrive at olegs. I usually take a herald caller of erastil (dex/wis + animal domain). Makes the early game so much easier, with bless, spontanous heals and spontanous summons (and animal companion lvl 4+). Maybe even 2 mercs, they only cost 500gp at lvl 1. When i get Harrim, I usually switch him to druid (since his CHA stat is a bit low for cleric). Sending in pets and summons by Harrim and the cleric first really makes those fights far easier, esp. on higher difficulties...

[puksone]

Originally posted by Madscientist:

PS: I have no idea how anyone ever beat a PnP campaign.
Even a lousy bandit with a generic longsword can one hit you on level 1 or 2 if he lands a lucky crit. There is no reload and you can have bad luck with your HP rolls.

So you are not dead with 0 HP in the PnP and you have to confirm crits. Level 1 encounter have normaly a really bad +hit. When you play the pnp campaigns by the book they are way to easy. A half optimized group totaly destroys everything. That's a huge problem because the GM has to buff the encounters from the books (a lot of work).

In PF builds/spells/abuses really matter. Your groups can do absolutly nothing or destroy an encounter in one round.

You can post your group and I guess some small tips would extremly boost your group strength.

[StonedWerewolf]

You aren’t dead at hp 0 here, either. Youjust go unconscious unless your hps are below certain value. (That value is negative, btw.) Unless you are e.g. half orc – that has racial trait making him fight in spite of having negative hp – enemies are all to happy to leave unconscious characters alone… and, at least in beginning, enemies usually don’t pack enough punch to change your status from ‘conscious’ to ‘dead’ in one hit.

Sure, RNG can still screw you hard, but you shouldn't have much dead teammates on normal difficulty unless your constitution is somehow abysmally low.

edit: also, if I remember correctly, you should have gotten one Raise Dead scroll from Restov as kind of failsafe.

PS. and not telling you to go to the Normal difficulty, but - at least in my experience - bad RNG most often just results in you needing to heal your party after the unfortunate encounter.

[Cypher]

Why's the difficulty anyone plays at an issue? e-peen related mayhap? lol
My lord, society has ruined this generation of gamers!

(no reflection on anyone in particular, just feel someone shouldn't have to practically apologise for playing at a certain difficulty)

[Madscientist]

Originally posted by Velg:

You aren’t dead at hp 0 here, either. Youjust go unconscious unless your hps are below certain value. (That value is negative, btw.) Unless you are e.g. half orc – that has racial trait making him fight in spite of having negative hp – enemies are all to happy to leave unconscious characters alone… and, at least in beginning, enemies usually don’t pack enough punch to change your status from ‘conscious’ to ‘dead’ in one hit.

Sure, RNG can still screw you hard, but you shouldn't have much dead teammates on normal difficulty unless your constitution is somehow abysmally low.

edit: also, if I remember correctly, you should have gotten one Raise Dead scroll from Restov as kind of failsafe.

PS. and not telling you to go to the Normal difficulty, but - at least in my experience - bad RNG most often just results in you needing to heal your party after the unfortunate encounter.

You are right, the chars are unconscious, not dead.
But having one char less in your active party makes everything much harder.

I play with story companions only because I think that having party members with personality add a lot to the atmosphere of the game. Plus I leved up my initial party on the world map right after the intro, so I arrived at Oleg at lv 2 and I did not have 2000Gold for a merc. Thanks to playing on story mode I have a full party of companions now.

Early in the game summons are only useful with a few classes.
The monster tactician can call summons that last 1 min per level instead of one round. ( maybe herald caller too, I am not sure right now). Else you spend 1 round casting to get one creature for 2 rounds.

I play with the dragon tank posted in the guide section, with slightly different stats.
I thought that having a tank with good AC (including touch AC) and good saves would be helpful, but early on I have low HP and enemies have a 5% hit chance until I can use mirror image and blur or displacement.
If I have to restart for whatever reasons I might try a monster tactician with a reach weapon and animal domain.

[Lightning]

On all my 4 playthrough's i've just did normal its doable, and much easier once you hit around level 10 tbh

[Marcos_DS]

Originally posted by Madscientist:

PS: I have no idea how anyone ever beat a PnP campaign.
Even a lousy bandit with a generic longsword can one hit you on level 1 or 2 if he lands a lucky crit. There is no reload and you can have bad luck with your HP rolls.

In the first few levels the mortality rate can indeed be high in the P&P campaigns due to bad luck, we often start at lvl 3 for that reason (also to have a bit more options, esp. the spellcasters). Also, as a DM i won't give enemies weapons that have a crit multiplier greater than x2 at early levels. Stats of monsters depend on the party proficiency, if they are new to the game or just not very much into optimization i keep them at default which is very easy to beat.

[Nightbringer]

Originally posted by Marcos_DS:

I would recommend to get yourself a nice mercenary as soon as you arrive at olegs. I usually take a herald caller of erastil (dex/wis + animal domain). Makes the early game so much easier, with bless, spontanous heals and spontanous summons (and animal companion lvl 4+). Maybe even 2 mercs, they only cost 500gp at lvl 1. When i get Harrim, I usually switch him to druid (since his CHA stat is a bit low for cleric). Sending in pets and summons by Harrim and the cleric first really makes those fights far easier, esp. on higher difficulties...

I took a cleric of Erastil as a merc with animal and community domains on my first play through and invested in archery. She never disappointed.

I am working on my second play through with a full team of mercs by second level. My priestess of Erastil is putting in a second appearance.

[Nightbringer]

Originally posted by Marcos_DS:

Originally posted by Madscientist:

PS: I have no idea how anyone ever beat a PnP campaign.
Even a lousy bandit with a generic longsword can one hit you on level 1 or 2 if he lands a lucky crit. There is no reload and you can have bad luck with your HP rolls.

In the first few levels the mortality rate can indeed be high in the P&P campaigns due to bad luck, we often start at lvl 3 for that reason (also to have a bit more options, esp. the spellcasters). Also, as a DM i won't give enemies weapons that have a crit multiplier greater than x2 at early levels. Stats of monsters depend on the party proficiency, if they are new to the game or just not very much into optimization i keep them at default which is very easy to beat.

I run a few campaigns. Some are like this, others are grittier.

My players are rightfully afraid of orc barbarians with greataxes >:-)

[Zourin]

90% of the problem is the super-stats given to every enemy. You're basically fighting derelict super humans everywhere you go, with 18's in every relevant stat for damage and defense, or higher. Monsters are given god-level stats in the 20's and 30's that can make anything short of munchkin builds crumple like tinfoil.

Turning down the modifier from Normal to Weak makes the game much closer to normal pen-and-paper levels, since they aren't getting stupid high bonuses (4 points less attack, AC, and 2 less physical damage). No more wizards with 20 dex and int and 23 AC. The developers are obviously obsessive power-DM's that think an AC/DC of less than 20 shouldn't be assigned to anything higher than a small rat. The rat gets a +19 to hit and AC.

A lot of big 'bosses' are still stupidly overbearing and can require a dozen or so reloads, but at least manageable without obsessive amounts of min/maxing. Some fights aren't winnable without specific spells or strategies like getting off a Dispel Magic, group-wide resist elements, or making Hideous Laughter to stick for 3-4 rounds. Like every bad boss fight, it will take about 3 reloads to figure out why you got TPK'ed in 3 rounds.

Thankfully, the devs were so obsessed with high attack and armor class values that most things don't have good willpower saves. The downside is that most early willpower save spells have low level caps built or target restrictions built into them, making them useless after level 6 or so.

[Gracey Face]

Originally posted by panda_express411:

Okay?
I disagree with one thing. The game is perfectly beatable on normal without save scumming or constantly reloading just because the enemy rolled good.

Not really. Game's full of wonky encounters that will require you to reload because there's nothing you can do without previous knowledge.

For example in the swamp witch hut area, there's a low DC mobility check leading to a 4 strong group of superpowered invisible Hodags that can hit for 50 damage an attack. You will lose characters if you go in there without knowing the fight is there. Then further down the map there's a well that you can open, and what you get for opening the well is three wisps that attack your main character as soon as they spawn in. You have no way of knowing it's going to happen, you have no way of controlling thier targeting, you have no way of interrupting them because they attack quite literally as soon as they spawn, and they're doing around 30-40 a hit so your MC is guaranteed dead unless you know about the fight beforehand and apply electrical resistance to yourself.


This is just the one area. And there's tons of ♥♥♥♥ like this all through the game. You will be forced to reload and save scum a lot even on normal in this game unless you're playing from a guide.

[SIlverblade-T-E]

this is what I do

sure stick to easiest difficulty at the start
make sure that "weight affecting party movement" is turned off so you can carry lots of gear without slowing down party members or affecting their skills (it DOES make them get tired quicker on ovelrand travel though if it goes to medium or more)

do NOT level up

get ot Olegs, do the little bit of fighting at Oleg's that unlocks the mercenary recruiting NPC

since you are sitll level 1, mercenaries are dirt cheap!


my ideal suggestion for a party is this, and you can pick a slot to play

Human wizard, generalist. max Intelligence, 12 Con 14 Dex
turn OFF this person's AI (the little head icon)
yoo do NOT want this person wasting time firing crossbow or whatever, only use this person to buff, debuff, crowd control and nuke
wasting time fighting gets problematical
take feats of SPELL FOCUS, conjuration, transmutation and enchantment are best then evocation
an interesting possible build is take spell focus conjuration, augment summoning and Superior summoning, so you can use monster summoning spells to flank and harass by summoning allies BEHIND the enemy AFTER battle has started, or, to summon BEFORE a fight begins directly in front of an enemy to soak up enemy special attacks like breath weapons
do NOT use this person for damage much, crowd control is better, but eventually you get good damage spells, like Scorching Ray, Controlled Fireball and others, consider taking point blank shot and Precise Shot feats to help with "Ray" spells

Cleric of Erastil, Human elf or Half elf as you prefer
take Animal and Community domains
this lets you get superb benefits
animal companion at level 4 (take Boon companion feat to boost pet's level)
Hearth, this gives a 1/day large radius boost to attacks and saves = to Wisdom bonus, this is ENORMOUS boost for tough fights and has long range, I toss it where I want party to fight and rush in
also gets a sort of lay on hands ability that also heals fatigue and other problems
use him from the rear with a longbow (his deity lets him use longbows )

Dwarf 2 hand fighter, take Glaive as weapon focus, as level up take Power Attack and then cleave series of feats
makes superb slaughterer of packs of enemies!
use Enlarge perosn and his "reach" means he can sweep HUGE areas with a "cleave"
this person wants lots of Strength and decent con
an interesting way to use this person is to keep Persuasion skill up and take Cornugon Smash feat, it gives a chance to intimidate on every hit if you do go that route you need to keep their Charisma decent and take Skill focus Persuasion and/or the feat that boosts intimidate based off your strength bonus, because the enemies hit by cleaving sweeps end up scared!
also useful as an "off tank" to protect the party (half-orc makes good race for Intimidation/cornugon smash build, I just like dwarves due to saves vs spells/poisons and because...dwarves rock, I'm Scottish, lol)
another feat to consider if they have good Dexterity is Combat Reflexes, because this lets them have more opportunity attacks and because they have such huge reach, they get LOTS of attacks of opportunity


Aasimar paladin, race that gives +Strength and Charisma
as the party's tank, these folk are superb!!
note that the use magic Item skill is useful for this person, due to high charisma and thus being able to use useful items such as wands scrolls, you will find having slow moving warriors in heavy armour able to use Expeditious Retreat wands/scrolls to move faster can be handy
Toughness, Shield Focus

Aasimar bard, race gives +dex and Charisma
you can build as an archer or melee as preffer
I do both, taking Duelling Sword and Weapon Finesse exotic feat and using a light shield (light shields don't penalize skills)
take Skill Focus Trickery asap! this will be your trap/lock/persuasion expert
Mirror Image is superb defence spell for this person
Vanish is great spell giving just enough time ot sneak ahead and deactivate traps


Elf ranger
make this person your Perception expert, take skill focus Perception
make them a Archery based ranger (thus point blank and precise shot are important to take)
take favoured races: Human, undead, Fey
as they go up levels, do NOT take rapid shot, Multishot is way way more effective and then take the archery ranger feat that gives Improved Precise Shot
when they can take a animal companion and again Boon Companion feat when able
I also take feat to improve stealth with this person, I use them to sneak ahead, often under Vanish or Invisibility spell to detect enemies and traps and use bard to deal with traps


note that Perception skill is useful for ALL classes, do not EVER reduce Intelligence without good reason, having at least 12 Int is handy for all classes
my paladin and 2hander I always have good perception skill and use them as sentries when camping since while camping you cannot wear heavy armour...unless you are on sentry duty ;)
also since they are at the fornt of the party, it means they havebetter chance to spot traps and hidden enemies
very high Perception skilled elf ranger will spot really hard to note things, and this skillis *crucial* to discover special area son the map and hidden treasures in dungeons etc


you always want your main character to have good Persuasion skill as sometimes they and they alone, get to make persuasion skills without party members' help

OUTFLANK is a superb feat for melee combatants, that +4 to hit a flanked enemy bonus is a huge boost and it keeps setting off opportunity attacks when you crit
this is part of why the Combat Reflexes feat is so damn good ;) lots and lots of opportunity attacks....

COmbat Reflexes feat can only be taken if the character has decent dexterity
there are several sets of mithril medium and heavy armour, front line fighters don't have to wear plate armour or have low dexterity...all depends on what you want for them
some folk even make dual wielding ranger front line combatants as an alternate to the usual "tank" and yes they can work very well

Trickery is a crucial skill, not just for traps but all the locks, get the person with best Trickery skill items in game you will find/buy to boost the skill, it's even more important than weapons


note with "buff" spells, ones with long duration are best
I use Mage Armour on monks, very high dexterity characters who would be penalzied wearing amrour and crucially animal companions
likewise, there's a cleric spell, lvl 3, forget name, lasts hours, boosts armour, superb for front line fighters
Heroism is a superb buff but best used on folk who NEED a boost, such as rogues, bards, folk who need skill boosts or to offset low saving throws etc
when you can, Good Hope is amazing all party buff

:)

[Grifta]

Do whatever lets you enjoy the game.

This is a harder than the PNP for 2 main reasons:
-You're controlling 6 guys in combat. A guy charging your wizard turns into a whole tactical dance that you have to orchestrate. In PNP, it's just 3-4 players taking their turns where the fighter gets to feel awesome for saving his wizard buddy.
-They added more enemies to make it interesting because this is a combat focused computer game. In the PNP, you could talk, sneak, or buy your way through a lot of encounter.