How does Divine Guardian actually work?

[DesperateDan]

At 3rd level they get an ability called 'Courageous Defence' what are the mechanics of the ability, how does it function? The ability description does not really specify and just says; "intercepts attacks directed at the guarded character as if you had both the 'In Harms Way' and 'Bodyguard' feats". The problem is that 'Bodyguard' and 'In Harms Way' do not seem to exist in game (or I cannot find them anywhere) and so I have idea how they actually function.

• Does it absorb all damage aimed at the guarded character?
  
• A percentage of the damage?
  
• A specific number of hits?
  
• Do I need to be within a certain range for it to work?
  
• Does it only block physical attacks or magical damage too?
  
• Can I intercept attacks that cause status effects, squeezing the most out of those awesome Pally saving throws?

So many questions, so little info!

It is almost as if they have just copy and pasted the PnP ability descriptions into the game and forgot to edit some of them (i.e the description of the Barbarians 'Beast Totem' skill line says that selecting this skill will prevent character from progressing in the Dragon Totem skill line, only the Dragon Totem skill line does not exist in game).

[Dixon Sider]

I gave up on divine guardian the instant I found out I lose all spells, and made a hospitaler instead. Idk if it's still this way, but the class progression chart shows you spells when you pick the class, but when you level up they wont be there any more

[DesperateDan]

Originally posted by Dixon Sider:

I gave up on divine guardian the instant I found out I lose all spells, and made a hospitaler instead. Idk if it's still this way, but the class progression chart shows you spells when you pick the class, but when you level up they wont be there any more

I apprieciate that you lose access to your divine casting, I'm trying to figure out whether that trade off would be worth it for me. I'm about to run a full player created party for my second play through attempting unfair difficulty with quite an unorthordox party, and depending on how 'Courageous Defence' works it could either be a broken or garbage.

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by DesperateDan:

Originally posted by Dixon Sider:

I gave up on divine guardian the instant I found out I lose all spells, and made a hospitaler instead. Idk if it's still this way, but the class progression chart shows you spells when you pick the class, but when you level up they wont be there any more

I apprieciate that you lose access to your divine casting, I'm trying to figure out whether that trade off would be worth it for me. I'm about to run a full player created party for my second play through attempting unfair difficulty with quite an unorthordox party, and depending on how 'Courageous Defence' works it could either be a broken or garbage.

It seems like it's good if your an offtank. You cant increase your own defenses, but you can increase someone elses... I believe

[lindavius]

The major difference, as I see it, is that Divine Guardian is the MC option, where you care far less about the spellcasting capacity, compared to the other subclasses: A fighter, who sacrifices feats (and some AC/ to-hit) for saves, Troth, LoH, Smite, and Divine Weapon:

Either 2 (saves) or 3 (troth) levels in it gives a large benefit for many tank-oriented builds; and is better suited than the other kits.

Alternatively, you can make him a secondary tank, who can also DPS and support, and go with about 10 or 11 levels; then basically like a standard Valerie, but with a stronger offensive focus: 4 Thug, 1 Monk, 4 Stalwart would be a possible suggestion.Certainly somewhat niche, and not power-gamers first choice; but still quite viable.


- And: The latter is actually a quite nice way to make Valerie shine, by giving her full support, with Troth (+4 additional AC means the difference between "Justice!" and "I can`t stand this much longer" ...) and quick Heals, and taking alot of the burden from her shoulders.
Giving both characters Shield Wall , Dazzling Display, Combat Reflexes, and Shatter Defenses also means in result that her low Strength becomes far less of an issue (most enemies will be flat-footed), and she can take offensive abilities far more deliberately than she normally would.

[kaymarciy]

I didn't play this clas (losing Paladin spells? No, thanks), but that's how it works in PnP:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bodyguard-combat

Bodyguard (Combat)
Your swift strikes ward off enemies attacking nearby allies.

Prerequisite: Combat Reflexes.

Benefit: When an adjacent ally is attacked, you may use an attack of opportunity to attempt the aid another action to improve your ally’s AC. You may not use the aid another action to improve your ally’s attack roll with this attack.

Normal: Aid another is a standard action.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/in-harm-s-way-combat

In Harm’s Way (Combat)
You put yourself in danger’s path to save your allies.

Prerequisite: Bodyguard.

Benefit: While using the aid another action to improve an adjacent ally’s AC, you can intercept a successful attack against that ally as an immediate action, taking full damage from that attack and any associated effects (bleed, poison, etc.). A creature cannot benefit from this feat more than once per attack.

Kind of garbage if you ask me. You would need Combat Reflexes and massive Dexerity to trigger the Bodyguard more than once per round and even then it's only +2 to AC. In Harm's Way is immediate action, which means you can't Lay Hands on yourself in the same round. Meh

[lindavius]

@kaymarciy At least in game, it is +4 to AC, which is very significant. for getting it more or less along the way.

Combat Reflexes used to be a staple for alot of classes, anyways. Playing e.g. an Aldori Swordlord (actually one of the best tank options, anyways, maybe e.g. Swordlord 5, Guardian 3, Thug 4, Aldori Defender 2, Scaled Fist 2) with 3 Guardian levels (for saves and troth) would mean parries for ages, with 24 or more Dex. (I would most often not activate In Harm`s Way, in this case, though)

And, to repeat myself: Similar to e.g. pet Ranger, Paladin (or Hospitaler) is more or less single class only, if you really want to reap any benefit from his casting prowess. - Guardian is the multiclass option, if you have something specific in mind.
- You may argue that fighter classes, who lack casting, are bad in general, though. :P

[jsaving]

Totally true that paladin spells are strongest if you stay pure, though for multiclassing I'd recommend divine hunter (free precise shot feat without needing to waste a slot on point blank shot) rather than divine guardian.