Sword Saint build - Str or Dex based?

[Zaboleq]

Hi,

I'm trying to figure out which one will works better. I'm not playing on Unfair so I do not need 70-80 AC.

I'm currently playin Dex version and even with my estoc +1, dmg is really low (below 9 if I don;t crit). I do not know if I miss certain feat but as far as I remember, I have fencing grace (estoc) so I should deal more damage I believe.

I'm just thinking if Dex is really better on normal/hard compare to Str version, especially before lvl 12. I know with Dex I can get better touch AC which is usefull in endgame but is it THAT important if I'm not playing on Unfair?

Is Str scalling much better than Dex scalling?

I saw some people suggest switch to 2h weapon later as you do not really need to spellcast anymore because you get a lot of buffs from casters and you just critt for a lot of dmg and 2h weapons are best dmg wise.

[kaymarciy]

You miss Piranha strike. You also don't have the Iaijutsu Focus (or whatever it's called in this game) which you'll unlock at lvl13.
Alternatively you may dip 4 lvls into Rogue-Knifemaster to get knife training instead of slashing grace, if you want to dual-wield Kukhris. But that's an unorthodoxical way.
PnP also has Elven Battle Focus feat, but it's not implemented into this game.

PS: touch AC is THAT important in the lategame, because of Wild Hunt scouts and their stupid Crystal attack.

PPS: if you want to go 2h, go for Elven Curved blade, it allows Weapon Finesse.

Btw, do you use weapon enhancement? It's hard to deal less than 9 damage with +1d6 fire damage.

[Aria Athena]

Originally posted by kaymarciy:

PPS: if you want to go 2h, go for Elven Curved blade, it allows Weapon Finesse.

If they want to add their Dex bonus to damage though, unless the weapon is Agile, I think the only way to do so with an Elven Curved Blade is 3 levels Rogue.



As for Touch AC, it's important to have some, but even on Unfair you are fine with ~45. It's not like Crystal is Wild Hunt Scout's default attack and their Attack Bonus sucks.

[kaymarciy]

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

If they want to add their Dex bonus to damage though, unless the weapon is Agile, I think the only way to do so with an Elven Curved Blade is 3 levels Rogue.

Agile weapon doesn't give 1.5 damage bonus from wielding a weapon two-handed which is kinda the main point. This way you'll be able to have a decent AC from Dex and still higher damage from Str. Because not investing into Dex sounds like a very bad idea even on normal. Even if you take bracers of armor into the equation.

[Swordman_Red]

Originally posted by kaymarciy:

You miss Piranha strike. You also don't have the Iaijutsu Focus (or whatever it's called in this game) which you'll unlock at lvl13.
Alternatively you may dip 4 lvls into Rogue-Knifemaster to get knife training instead of slashing grace, if you want to dual-wield Kukhris. But that's an unorthodoxical way.
PnP also has Elven Battle Focus feat, but it's not implemented into this game.

PS: touch AC is THAT important in the lategame, because of Wild Hunt scouts and their stupid Crystal attack.

PPS: if you want to go 2h, go for Elven Curved blade, it allows Weapon Finesse.

Btw, do you use weapon enhancement? It's hard to deal less than 9 damage with +1d6 fire damage.

Wait a min. That might sound stupid, but aren't you supposed to have one hand empty to be able to cast spells on these classes? Can you dual wield and spellstrike simultaniously?

[Notabot187]

You can't, but you can still spell combat.

[Swordman_Red]

Originally posted by Notabot187:

You can't, but you can still spell combat.

Which means, i can cast, but need an additional action to deliver the spell, right?

[kaymarciy]

Originally posted by Swordman_Red:

Wait a min. That might sound stupid, but aren't you supposed to have one hand empty to be able to cast spells on these classes? Can you dual wield and spellstrike simultaniously?

OP said they don't want to.

Originally posted by Zaboleq:

you do not really need to spellcast anymore because you get a lot of buffs from casters

It does make some sense. With x1.5 Str modifier + 1.5 Power Attack modifier + Str bonus from Legendary proportions on top of SS Int bonus you can crit not just very hard, but very-very hard. And you can still cast spells with Quickeninig rod. I'm just not sure why play Sword-saint in that case. Arcane pool isn't limitless, you can't apply Perfect critical to every strike; and Weapon mastery comes only at lvl20. May as well play Abyssal Eldritch Scion and take Sense Vitals from the knowledge pool.

[Notabot187]

Originally posted by Swordman_Red:

Originally posted by Notabot187:

You can't, but you can still spell combat.

Which means, i can cast, but need an additional action to deliver the spell, right?

Been awhile since I read the rules, you can't spell combat with 2 handers, but you can spell strike. Got it backwards. It makes it into a bad idea.

[Aria Athena]

It's also worth mentioning to the OP that one of the best weapons is an Elven Curved Blade called Bane of the Living, which you can get relatively early in the game.

[Swordman_Red]

Originally posted by Notabot187:

Originally posted by Swordman_Red:

Which means, i can cast, but need an additional action to deliver the spell, right?

Been awhile since I read the rules, you can't spell combat with 2 handers, but you can spell strike. Got it backwards. It makes it into a bad idea.

Ok-ok, i'm a bit confused. So i can't go dex based SS or ES with dual wielding kukries, right? Cause i wont be able t cast anything with both hands occupied?

[kaymarciy]

Originally posted by Swordman_Red:

Ok-ok, i'm a bit confused. So i can't go dex based SS or ES with dual wielding kukries, right? Cause i wont be able t cast anything with both hands occupied?

You won't be able to use spell combat, e.g. cast a spell and attack on the same turn. You will be able to use spell strike (deliever touch spells with a weapon attack) if you cast the spell on the previous turn (or quickened). Make note, Fencing/Slashing grace works only if your off-hand is empty, so dual-wielding will require you to take Rogue lvls.

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

It's also worth mentioning to the OP that one of the best weapons is an Elven Curved Blade called Bane of the Living, which you can get relatively early in the game.

Speaking about which... what caster lvl does it cast Harm with? Never had an opportunity to wield this blade.

[Swordman_Red]

Originally posted by kaymarciy:

Originally posted by Swordman_Red:

Ok-ok, i'm a bit confused. So i can't go dex based SS or ES with dual wielding kukries, right? Cause i wont be able t cast anything with both hands occupied?

You won't be able to use spell combat, e.g. cast a spell and attack on the same turn. You will be able to use spell strike (deliever touch spells with a weapon attack) if you cast the spell on the previous turn (or quickened). Make note, Fencing/Slashing grace works only if your off-hand is empty, so dual-wielding will require you to take Rogue lvls.

I see, thanks.

[JODEGAFUN]

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

It's also worth mentioning to the OP that one of the best weapons is an Elven Curved Blade called Bane of the Living, which you can get relatively early in the game.

Yea, you can get it really early, if you know to fight the potentielly hardest enemie before you go to Pitax.

[Halfgeek]

Originally posted by kaymarciy:

Originally posted by Aria Athena:

If they want to add their Dex bonus to damage though, unless the weapon is Agile, I think the only way to do so with an Elven Curved Blade is 3 levels Rogue.

Agile weapon doesn't give 1.5 damage bonus from wielding a weapon two-handed which is kinda the main point. This way you'll be able to have a decent AC from Dex and still higher damage from Str. Because not investing into Dex sounds like a very bad idea even on normal. Even if you take bracers of armor into the equation.

I thought this was fixed. In-game, I'm wielding an agile rapier, and if 2h wielding it, I get 1.5x DEX bonus to dmg.

[Halfgeek]

OP: There's a really nice build with STR Sword Saint, it centers on Vital Strike and Greater VS, with enlarge/legendary. SS can maximize the dmg roll and increase crit multiplier, making it a one hit one kill type build.

With the reach Fauchard and Cleaving Finish, you can literally 1 hit kill everything on half the screen when legendary sized.