Psychic Hotline Strategies

[Star Paladin]

Ok, I've played RPGs for decades, including most PC RPGs. But this game is maddening in it's "need to know" tactics. Unlike most other RPGs, where I can alter strategies as I see the enemy abilites or situation, in this game, if your looking for tips, it's "know it all in advance, and prepare with that knowlege" to win.

So many times, I get into a battle, lose horribly, reload uncountable times, and still can't win, so I Google. Almost without fail, you'll be told to reload hours back, pick very, very specific spells, weapons, scrolls, and potions; trek to the area again; save all the before mentioned items/spells ONLY for that one room/battle; then you have a chance. That's crazy.

Perhaps foreknowlege; detailed lore knowlege; detailed enemy knowlege; detailed encounter knowlege; and save scumming is acceptable for fan boys, but I find it maddening and the opposite of game balancing to deal with.

And please don't start the "Just turn the difficulty up and down, like a yo-yo, every encounter, based on the battle challenge" tip. That's got to be the worst copout yet to excuse a games non existant balance I have ever heard.

[provokastoras]

To be fair the op has a point. If you dont have pen and papper experience of the system this game is excruciating even at lower difficulties... If you don't eg know that regenerating enemies don't die unless they receive certain damage types then you need to stsrt searching and btw that is not a valid translation of the monsters you can still coup de grace them in pen and paper. If you cut its head off its not gonna regenerste a head... And besides wild hunt there are several fights you can be tested if you are not lucky. Eg... The stag lord... If you fight him with all the company up he is quite the encpunter. There are at least 4 level 10 plus characters +adds involved vs a group of level 5s. Tartucio and the troll can be rediculously hard too if you wre not evil. Balb hilltop 3 i went there with a lvl 14 barbarian and he was hitting once evey three turns... Thats a level 7 encounter? The wisps in candlemere will make short work of you without the lightening resistance in a couple of turns too. Traversing witch hut if you dont realize those are cloudkills is pretty much a reload. And you still hsve to do a fight in the cloudkill with no valid counter to stat loss. Then there are the wererats dumped at the begining. The faceless sister in verdant chambers that stuns through free action... (to solo her i had to ira her to death) the naga with iroveti if you have used your resourses or your mages were caught by the adds that materialize on them is another gg. Same dungeon the gnome mage trio.... Shambling mount the immortal... And then there is the gm I mean the missbegotten troll.

[TeeQueue]

He does have a point, but imo it's all balanced out in the end by the Baron/ess being a time lord.

[kaymarciy]

@provokastoras - this game has difficulty spikes. But neither the Staglord nor wererats nor Hargulka make you "reload hours back and pick a specific weapon". Dwarven fortress has the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Metal Devourer for idiots who came in there withot the Trollreaper for one reason or another. And the Misbegotten jerk? I dunno, on Challenging my Ekun killed him solo (with his dog under the displacement effect)... I do admit I've savescummed it couple times, but that's nowhere close to what the op states.

[provokastoras]

Key points you know how to build the character. A first timer not aware of pnp rules would not...as for not loading back for hours on hours it happens to me even after 400 hours... And quite often has to do with bugs or bad design eg i failed the fort save at the river then could not find the tomb... Realized after soloing the sister. Or did not get the syndicate on lvl 3 though it will show up eventually only to learn it wont on act 2...

[Sotanaht]

Originally posted by provokastoras:

To be fair the op has a point. If you dont have pen and papper experience of the system this game is excruciating even at lower difficulties... If you don't eg know that regenerating enemies don't die unless they receive certain damage types then you need to stsrt searching and btw that is not a valid translation of the monsters you can still coup de grace them in pen and paper. If you cut its head off its not gonna regenerste a head... And besides wild hunt there are several fights you can be tested if you are not lucky. Eg... The stag lord... If you fight him with all the company up he is quite the encpunter. There are at least 4 level 10 plus characters +adds involved vs a group of level 5s. Tartucio and the troll can be rediculously hard too if you wre not evil. Balb hilltop 3 i went there with a lvl 14 barbarian and he was hitting once evey three turns... Thats a level 7 encounter? The wisps in candlemere will make short work of you without the lightening resistance in a couple of turns too. Traversing witch hut if you dont realize those are cloudkills is pretty much a reload. And you still hsve to do a fight in the cloudkill with no valid counter to stat loss. Then there are the wererats dumped at the begining. The faceless sister in verdant chambers that stuns through free action... (to solo her i had to ira her to death) the naga with iroveti if you have used your resourses or your mages were caught by the adds that materialize on them is another gg. Same dungeon the gnome mage trio.... Shambling mount the immortal... And then there is the gm I mean the missbegotten troll.

Cloudkill is poison, if you have delay poison you are immune. Considering Delay Poison tops my list of "always have this spell active" it doesn't matter when you suddenly face poison/cloudkill enemies.

Anyone complaining about the Misbegotten Troll should henceforth be ignored in all conversations about difficulty. He's probably the easiest fight in the entire end-game, any competent party should kill him in less than 2 rounds without any special preparations needed. Only 44 AC is child's play by that level. Look at what a strength-based Fighter would be hitting with, Unbuffed is:
+17 BAB, +10 Strength (22 base +8 belt), +4 Weapon Training, +1 Weapon Focus, +1 Greater Weapon Focus, +5 Weapon enhancement =+38 to hit vs 44 AC hits on a 6 or higher.

Then you have buffs. Haste (+1), Bless (+1) Legendary Proportions (net +1), Greater Heroism (+4), Greater Invisibility (+2 hit AND -2 AC for ignoring Dex/dodge) now you are hitting on a -5 and can afford adding things like Power Attack to the mix, but were aren't done, next is debuffs

Flanking bonus +2, Outflank +2, rogue Bewildering Injury -2 AC. At this point, you are guaranteed to hit even WITH power attack!

[Tanlaus]

I never player pathfinder pnp, or any kind of pathfinder games. I don’t pnp at all. Closest I’ve cone to this is NWN2... which is pretty close honestly.

I mean, I’ve had to look up certain weapons or classes, but they’re not that hard to understand.

One thing I like about this game, which took me until chapter 2 to really figure out, is how useful various spells, like see invisible or delay poison actually are.

In a lot of games I usually just make sure my dps is high enough and faceroll everything.

Here I really need to buff and de buff to deal with most encounters. All of the spells and abilities I’m used to ignoring are suddenly necessary.

I don’t think I move anywhere on a map without delay poison up. I’ve always got resist energy spells on standby.... the list goes on.

An earlier poster said it best. If you’re taking your party into the unknown, have potions, scrolls, and a variety of spells to deal with whatever challenge you might face.

[provokastoras]

You are lying through your teeth now... Misbegotten troll has 44 touch ac. And 60ish normal with your listed buffs you ll hit him on a stat 20. 5% of the time... meaning you might as well go unbuffed. unless you have briliant energy weapons. And if you want to be smug about it i got him on try 2 first playthrough blind by turning dimension strike on. Next patch they nerfed my char's build btw as well... My stats were in par with the editor on a build up char. and the only reason it took two tries was i did not want to waste arcane pool on the first. you are right i was hitting him on 2 plus with power attack but with dimention strike on. As for your wizards hitting touch ac 44? Hm hm quicken truestrike first you got a 50% chance then.
The reason i am calling the gm a misbegotten troll is that because as a pnp gm i know there is no legal way in the game to make a large troll have a touch ac of 44 and cast spells as swift action and be a cr 20 on top. He is trolling by giving all class abilities on a monster.
Now try explaining that to someone who does not know what touch ac is... Like the op
Thanks for the tip on cloudkill though. I never though the spell as poison effect.

[SodiumAzide]

Here is a few basics that will carry you through the whole game.

Defense

1. YOU NEED A HIGH AC MAIN TANK. The most common problem you will have is getting murdered by multiple attacking high damage murder machines that have the ability to mulch you in seconds. Armor Class is non-linear in its effectiveness. An AC of 20 is effecively an AC of 0 as far as most things you care about are going to be concerned. An AC of 40 is someone that can tank early game for almost forever. An AC of 60 is effective invulnerability. Damage is optional on this character.

2. ELEMENTAL AND STATUS RESITANCE. Fire, Acid, Electricity, Poison, Negative energy, fear, paralyzing, roots and compulsion all have associated spells that prevent them being easily applied. Depending on the fight these make the difference between getting murdered and winning with ease. For example Wisps have a electrical damage touch attack that deals about 20 damage. Your main tank will be ripped to shreds in seconds if 3 or 4 of them start attacking. With a 7th level cast of a 2nd level spell they are IMMUNE to that damage and you will be able to actually fall asleep during these encounters. There are a few other ones. For example Count Dazzleflare? One of the wisps spams magic missiles. Shield, a first level spell immunizes you against them.

Offense
3. BROAD SPECTRUM DISABLES. Stinking cloud, Web, Slow, Phantasmal Web, Tar Pit, Obsidian Flow, Dazzling Display, Confusion, Hold Monster/Person/animal. Look at the Monster, chose a disable that targets a weaker save and spam it.

4. PHYSICAL DPS SOURCE. A single Rogue well built to pair with your main tank will provide you with almost all the DPS you need. If you are not feeling creative then Nok Nok is built in such a way that he will devastate your conventional foes on almost any difficulty. Your main DPS should be designed with a high AC as a priority so that they can sit next to your maintank and not get killed if there is an aggor transfer.

5. AOE Damage: Swarms are the devil, Alchemists are especially good at this but a wizzard or sorc will do.

6. FLEXIBLE DAMAGE SOURCES. You need a character who can attack Touch Armor Class, Damage Ghosts and incoporeals and deal alot of different elemental types. Vulnerabilities are rare but sometimes you need something to stop regen. Magi and Alchemists are especially good at this. For a magus Ghost touch, brilliant energy, elemental attacks can all be slapped on your weapon and you can ignore armor, ignore incoporeal and stop regen while still having a decent platform for damage. Alchemists flasks are non-magical (no spell resistance) touch attack AOE damage that with a grand cognatogen have UNSAVEABLY high DCs. Force flasks will trivialize all encounters.

To review. One tank, A source of Defense Buffs, A source of varied save disables, one DPS Conventional, One DPS Flexible and the ability to generate AOE attacks. Fill these rolls and you will never have to be psychic.

[Sotanaht]

Originally posted by provokastoras:

You are lying through your teeth now... Misbegotten troll has 44 touch ac. And 60ish normal with your listed buffs you ll hit him on a stat 20. 5% of the time... meaning you might as well go unbuffed. unless you have briliant energy weapons. And if you want to be smug about it i got him on try 2 first playthrough blind by turning dimension strike on. Next patch they nerfed my char's build btw as well... My stats were in par with the editor on a build up char. and the only reason it took two tries was i did not want to waste arcane pool on the first. you are right i was hitting him on 2 plus with power attack but with dimention strike on. As for your wizards hitting touch ac 44? Hm hm quicken truestrike first you got a 50% chance then.
The reason i am calling the gm a misbegotten troll is that because as a pnp gm i know there is no legal way in the game to make a large troll have a touch ac of 44 and cast spells as swift action and be a cr 20 on top. He is trolling by giving all class abilities on a monster.
Now try explaining that to someone who does not know what touch ac is... Like the op
Thanks for the tip on cloudkill though. I never though the spell as poison effect.

Misbegotten Troll has 44 base, 42 Flatfooted, and 11 Touch with all settings on "normal". Proof here https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/960853363629387038/AABDDB3600F600A0624D593EA88C370845436D86/

The only enemy with 60 AC is the black dragon, and he only has I believe 14 or 17 touch AC, in either case it was low enough for my Sorcerer to hit with Enervation.

[Flannimal]

I think one thing the Devs could do that would open the game up a bit more to those without an extensive knowledge of Pathfinder would be to allow skills checks to see enemy stats before AND after combat. This would allow you to adjust your tactics based on what you are able to determine of the monster you're facing.

[Sotanaht]

Originally posted by Flannimal:

I think one thing the Devs could do that would open the game up a bit more to those without an extensive knowledge of Pathfinder would be to allow skills checks to see enemy stats before AND after combat. This would allow you to adjust your tactics based on what you are able to determine of the monster you're facing.

That's already a thing though. I think the DCs go down when the monster dies or something, not sure how it works but usually you get more information once you've killed it.

[Flannimal]

Originally posted by Sotanaht:

Originally posted by Flannimal:

I think one thing the Devs could do that would open the game up a bit more to those without an extensive knowledge of Pathfinder would be to allow skills checks to see enemy stats before AND after combat. This would allow you to adjust your tactics based on what you are able to determine of the monster you're facing.

That's already a thing though. I think the DCs go down when the monster dies or something, not sure how it works but usually you get more information once you've killed it.

I've only seen it go off after combat ends.

[nym_moondown]

You get two checks, before and after, at least if it's the first time you meet a creature. Not sure if that happens also the second/third etc (before, after yes, it's sure)

[davide.forcina]

I think this game is very easy...just take a level of vivisectionist to every character + accomplished sneak attack.

Wizzard/sorc don't need strange spells... just powerful range touch spells + arcane trickster.

My lv13 Arcane trickster shots maximized Scorching Rays and instant kill almost everything.

A rogue+monk+stalwarth defender halfling can make a super-tank (53CA at lv13) AND a good damage dealer

Alchemist granadier (staggered bomb + force bomb) is the best "area control" possible.

Then take a cleric for heal and buff, and take the Animal Dominion with Smidolon or Mastodon AND some other class wit animal companion (Druid or Sacred Huntsmaster are very good!)

I win every battle very easy

[kaymarciy]

Originally posted by Sotanaht:

Originally posted by provokastoras:

You are lying through your teeth now... Misbegotten troll has 44 touch ac. And 60ish normal with your listed buffs you ll hit him on a stat 20.

Misbegotten Troll has 44 base, 42 Flatfooted, and 11 Touch with all settings on "normal". Proof here https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/960853363629387038/AABDDB3600F600A0624D593EA88C370845436D86/

If anything, Misbegotten Troll casts Seamantle on himself which gives +8 more AC. He also may have some situative defensive abilities which are not directly translated into the AC in his statsheet.

Btw, here's what I found when looking for the Seamantle description:

You gain improved cover (+8 cover bonus to AC, +4 bonus on Reflex saves) against foes that do not have freedom of movement effects. The cover granted by the seamantle does not enable you to make Stealth checks or prevent attacks of opportunity. Magical attacks against you are unaffected unless they require attack rolls or state that they do not function underwater (such as cloudkill).

I think neither of this is true in Kingmaker...